we are doing a roofing job and I noticed the siders did a full tear off. However, there is no plywood or sheathing,just fiberglass between studs then of course Sheetrock on interior. They are nailing siding directly into studs and I asked the guy about it. He said since he's using Insulated siding it's ok..is this true. I souls still worry the insulated siding could still warp due to the voids.
Vinyl siding over studs, no sheathing
davinci
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Make the call, that house has no rigidity to it now. That sider is clearly only thinking about his siding job and water behind the siding, not about storms, wind, etc.
Sheetrock might be the only thing saving the house now from collapsing.
Why wouldn't the moron figure on removing t-111(if it was rotted) and then putting 1/2" sheathing over the studs, then siding.
So many idiots out there working, no wonder contractors get painted with a wide brush as being hacks and con artists.
Sheetrock might be the only thing saving the house now from collapsing.
Why wouldn't the moron figure on removing t-111(if it was rotted) and then putting 1/2" sheathing over the studs, then siding.
So many idiots out there working, no wonder contractors get painted with a wide brush as being hacks and con artists.
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Doesn't sound good at all. However, I will add something I found interesting when my wife and I moved to Seattle.
There were quite a few homes built that I saw had what they called uniwall construction. There WAS corner bracing however, along with building paper. Even then I thought this was cheesy.
But another item I found curious was the usage of gyp board on the apartments we were building. They were 3 stories high and there were strategically placed shear panels for structural rigidity. But in some spots, the only thing holding the wall from racking was essentially sheetrock.
They even had sheetrock shear nailing schedules for certain parts of the structure. No plywood, no corner bracing.....just sheetrock.
The point I am making is that it is POSSIBLE, even in wind and earthquake country, that you can design a home without exterior sheathing.
I would NOT want that for my own home though. What we found was a real easy access to a persons home. Easy to break in to. Think about it, a utility knife can gain you access to a home, with no noise. That is a frightening building design.
There were quite a few homes built that I saw had what they called uniwall construction. There WAS corner bracing however, along with building paper. Even then I thought this was cheesy.
But another item I found curious was the usage of gyp board on the apartments we were building. They were 3 stories high and there were strategically placed shear panels for structural rigidity. But in some spots, the only thing holding the wall from racking was essentially sheetrock.
They even had sheetrock shear nailing schedules for certain parts of the structure. No plywood, no corner bracing.....just sheetrock.
The point I am making is that it is POSSIBLE, even in wind and earthquake country, that you can design a home without exterior sheathing.
I would NOT want that for my own home though. What we found was a real easy access to a persons home. Easy to break in to. Think about it, a utility knife can gain you access to a home, with no noise. That is a frightening building design.
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I would imagine there was added support on the corners. however, siding needs to have something structural behind it . around here we have alot of older homes with homasite rather than plywood. although its flimsy its structural enough for siding. just need to nail into the studs since it does'nt hold nails very well. this would not work for vinyl cedar shakes since they must be center nailed in which case OSB or plywood would be needed.
if this guy is siding over studs alone, insulated siding or not, the siding could take on the shape of the empty void (warp). at the very least he should have to put up some 1/2 insulation board.
you cannot side over empty studs.
if this guy is siding over studs alone, insulated siding or not, the siding could take on the shape of the empty void (warp). at the very least he should have to put up some 1/2 insulation board.
you cannot side over empty studs.
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I've done some buildings with Gyp/Lap as well. In my case, it was done for fire rating. There was always a 4x8 shear panel on the end of each wall and coiled wind bracing installed wherever a connection of top to bottom plate was possible. It was also installed in a push/pull X orientation.
I've also framed a couple homes with shear panels on the corners and nothing more than foil faced foam sheathing in between.
The bottom line is, there was always shear resistance in place before siding.
T-111 is considered structural sheathing in most cases. Removing it and not taking alternative precautions against shear is criminal negligence IMO.
I've also framed a couple homes with shear panels on the corners and nothing more than foil faced foam sheathing in between.
The bottom line is, there was always shear resistance in place before siding.
T-111 is considered structural sheathing in most cases. Removing it and not taking alternative precautions against shear is criminal negligence IMO.
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Thermoply! LOL....yeah did one house with that crap too.foil-faced sheathing and that 1/8th inch cardboard crap should be outlawed.
We worked on a development house one time where the whole development was built with that foil faced cardboard stuff. you could have cut a whole in the walls with a simple utility knife and actually get inside if you wanted to. At least they put steel at the corners for stability. Still, call me what you want, but I love 1/2" real plywood sheathing. don't even get me started on OSB on roofs.
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I worked on one building with that stuff too.
The builder told us: "The beauty of this stuff is, when you get to a corner, you just fold it around.":laughing:
Not much cutting either, just overlap and run.:blink:
Why in the world would anyone tear off the T1-11? My brother had a manufactured home a few years back that just had vinyl siding on the outside. Might of had some plactic wrap and maybe some bracing , never got that far into it. Cheap and dumb.
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Carry about 40 sheets at a time, nail it on with roofing nails, overlap, boom, done! :laughing:
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I have one memorable story from the Thermo-Ply house.
It was a beachfront property and we were framing it during the late Winter, early Spring.
We sheathed over the windows for protection from the wind and weather.
One day, we were up on the top floor, pinning interior gables and doing some other back-framing.
Next thing you know, some guy comes up, ranting about someone pissing on his chain saw.:blink:
We were baffled, thinking WTF is this guy talking about?
We basically told him if he continued his rant, he was looking toward a potential azz-whooping being handed to him.
As he turned to go, I noticed he had wet spots all over his Carhartt coat and it wasn't raining outside.:whistling
After he left, one of the guys came down from a loft area, laughing hysterically.
He had gone over to a window, cut an X in the Thermo-Ply and tucked his junk out to take a leak.
The wind caught his stream and carried it toward the front of the building where the guy was notching pilings for 4x12 deck stringers.
Wasn't this stuff big in the late 70s-80s? I've done a few additions on some houses that had this under stucco. It just amazes me how well the stucco "floated" out there without cracking. I know stucco wire was part of it, but there was really nothing there to nail the stucco wire to except the plywood corners.:blink: To add to the problem, since there is an Air Force base and an Army Missile Range nearby there are a s***load of sonic booms. I can see MAYBE using this for a brick veneer house but not stucco.
The sider must be a real idiot. I would bet while selling the job the homeowner was concerned about how thick the insulated siding is and the house windows would look sunken below the plane of the J channel so the idiot sider says no problem and removes the t1-11 destroying the structural integrity of the home. That is just a guess but I bet it is right on.
I have never seen t1-11 that is so damaged the whole building needs stripped. You usually find rot above the bellybands, decks and roof line. Usually cutting out and replacing one foot strips get the job done.
I do see LP panel siding that is so far gone that it needs to be removed and replaced before new siding is installed, this is very common. We generally remove and replace with plywood a couple of pieces at a time. Trying to strip a whole elevation at once seems to lead to lots of screw pops in the drywall. I hate to think of what the drywall in the house mentioned above is going to look like in a short period of time.
Kent Whitten mentioned we have a large amount of homes built with singlewall construction in the Seattle area. These always get sheathing when my company does a new siding installation, I cant believe some companies dont do this but some companies dont.
I would bet while selling the job the homeowner was concerned about how thick the insulated siding is and the house windows would look sunken below the plane of the J channel so the idiot sider says no problem and removes the t1-11 destroying the structural integrity of the home. That is just a guess but I bet it is right on.I have never seen t1-11 that is so damaged the whole building needs stripped. You usually find rot above the bellybands, decks and roof line. Usually cutting out and replacing one foot strips get the job done.
I do see LP panel siding that is so far gone that it needs to be removed and replaced before new siding is installed, this is very common. We generally remove and replace with plywood a couple of pieces at a time. Trying to strip a whole elevation at once seems to lead to lots of screw pops in the drywall. I hate to think of what the drywall in the house mentioned above is going to look like in a short period of time.
Kent Whitten mentioned we have a large amount of homes built with singlewall construction in the Seattle area. These always get sheathing when my company does a new siding installation, I cant believe some companies dont do this but some companies dont.
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If he is doing vinyl siding, I can't imagine it looking good 10 minutes after he installs it this way. Just the difference in heat during the day will cause it to expand and contract. Without the sheeting to move against, the laps will start to move in and out from the wall. Besides, how will you get a proper nail pattern at the ends and center of the panels, and how will you deal with any pipes or other things popping out from the wall, and how will you nail near the windows, and how will you...
Things like this need to be brought to either the installers attention, or the homeowner. If you want to remain anonymous just call the local builders board, but this, the siding, will cause many issues, the least of which will be bad looking siding. The fact he tore off the T-111 in the first place, is a hint he is a moron. If the homeowner has a problem with the window depths, you either charge them to reinstall the windows and retrim the inside, or you try and come up with an exterior solution to build out the trim or add new trim.
Usually, if it is a house that was build with T-111 and is now needing resided, it would have had aluminum windows. You should add exterior trim to those anyway. You don't have enough window frame to get a good long lasting seal with the vinyl J. It can be done, and I've done it, but I'd rather add trim. If you are not replacing the windows, you can let the customer know that you are adding exterior trim so that when they do decide to replace the windows, the window installers will just have to remove the trim, install the windows and replace the trim, instead of pulling down the window area of the siding.
Lots of things this guy coulda, shoulda done, but it sounds like he is new at this. It is also possible that he is new to vinyl. Folks who have never installed it always seem to think it is easy because it is plastic. It is actually much harder than wood or fibercement. Thinking about it, how is he going to trim it properly without sheeting?
Things like this need to be brought to either the installers attention, or the homeowner. If you want to remain anonymous just call the local builders board, but this, the siding, will cause many issues, the least of which will be bad looking siding. The fact he tore off the T-111 in the first place, is a hint he is a moron. If the homeowner has a problem with the window depths, you either charge them to reinstall the windows and retrim the inside, or you try and come up with an exterior solution to build out the trim or add new trim.
Usually, if it is a house that was build with T-111 and is now needing resided, it would have had aluminum windows. You should add exterior trim to those anyway. You don't have enough window frame to get a good long lasting seal with the vinyl J. It can be done, and I've done it, but I'd rather add trim. If you are not replacing the windows, you can let the customer know that you are adding exterior trim so that when they do decide to replace the windows, the window installers will just have to remove the trim, install the windows and replace the trim, instead of pulling down the window area of the siding.
Lots of things this guy coulda, shoulda done, but it sounds like he is new at this. It is also possible that he is new to vinyl. Folks who have never installed it always seem to think it is easy because it is plastic. It is actually much harder than wood or fibercement. Thinking about it, how is he going to trim it properly without sheeting?
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Sorry, I probably made it sound like this was normal. I saw quite a few meaning a few dozen in a Lynnwood development. That will probably make more sense. Not all over the place for sure. I never did that while I was there. Not once. Mostly osb over 2x6's.rock16 said:
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Oh lord.... LP siding. We have a winner in the biggest pile of crap siding ever. :laughing:
I would address the issue. At best with material and labor your looking at
40 sheets of wood with install price some where around $600 - 800 to assure a solid structure. Some will tell you on a trailer in a park, secure the corners and add 1" foam t the rest.
I personally don't trust how trailers are build and would want and beg to be able to add the extra strength.
Whats the going rate to rebuild the trailer and replace content if it blows down?
That is how I would approach it!
40 sheets of wood with install price some where around $600 - 800 to assure a solid structure. Some will tell you on a trailer in a park, secure the corners and add 1" foam t the rest.
I personally don't trust how trailers are build and would want and beg to be able to add the extra strength.
Whats the going rate to rebuild the trailer and replace content if it blows down?
That is how I would approach it!
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