Your trade is solar, taking on a project like that.

Interesting.

John www.deckmastersllc.com

 

You're playing chess with checkers - I didn't put much into thinking about your post but I have one word that is a 100% fail safe option for decks. Freestanding

 

A couple points - with sips just use concrete anchors to attach your ledger, not sure what you're talking about with 3/4" ply though

Also your notch idea will work, done it many times on decks that require 6x6 over 16' tall. Just hide it behind the rim joist and it looks like a continuous post.

I think I would stay away from mounting the 3rd story deck posts on the 2nd story deck. Even if you place them directly above the 2nd story posts some of that load won't transfer to the footings like you want. It's ok for roofs at like 20psf, decks no good at 50psf.

Good luck

 

A couple points - with sips just use concrete anchors to attach your ledger, not sure what you're talking about with 3/4" ply though

Are you getting SIP mixed up with ICF?

 

Probably, I'm tired tonight

 

I don't even think anchors would work with icf would they, because of that insulation layer. I was referring to solid concrete walls - we get that a lot with basements round here.

I agree with guy earlier, freestanding is the way to go

 

freestanding is the way to go

How are going to spec the posts and brace it at this height?

I would think the attached ledger system would be more stable?

Please explain.

 

Just get an engineer to design it and you're golden.
I've stacked posts, I've done continuous, whatever works.

 

Free standing a deck that height will look like crap. Get an engineer for the ledger connection. Btw, the posts in this situation are not the same as 18' tall posts, you have bracing at mid span (the other deck).

 

The 3/4 board the back side of the sips is how they are done around here. Not at all common to use them in this area though but neighborhood across the street all of the houses have them.

I have never done one my self though as I don't do new build decks. They always laugh when I quote them so gave up.

 

My obligatory salesman answer is just use steel. It is obviously the answer to everything.

For the posts I would use Parallams, which would be well within their limits on that deck. Beam connections get a little more tricky but can be done. All that is needed is a little leg work, creativity and a good arch/engineer.

There are a few members here that have done some killer high decks. They have a few threads and articles that you should read for some guidance as well.

PS Be very thankful for all the help you have gotten so far. these threads are usually shut down very quickly. Everyone is being very nice for some reason...

 

He's in Florida. Depending on where, steel would be a horrible decision.

Totally agree with the parallam posts. Concealed flange hangers, fur and wrap to make nice.

The nice thing must be because its mothers day and all of us are in nice mode for our wives. Dont get used to it OP.

 

I should have read his location....

 

If this is new construction, why is the structural design for a multi-story deck being left to the solar guy, to improvise? An SIP building might have a conventionally framed floor assembly; do you have construction drawings? This picture doesn't make sense to me.

Is this construction being done legally?

 

Yes it will having building permit, the second floor is not conventional, there are NO 2 by's in the walls except the corners, bottom sills & top plates.
It is a passive solar design minimizing thermal bridging.

I have at the moment preliminary plans drafted, hopefully with some input from you guys I can have the next set of drawing updated.

The pdf's are too large to upload unfortunately.

 

"Some input" just doesn't replace solid structural engineering knowledge. Being attached, you're going to be relying on the SIPs for all wind loading, including uplift.

I wouldn't touch this, and I'm not very shy about hanging myself out.

Edit - I'd do it freestanding - you can do it prescriptive, so no big deal. Otherwise, it's an engineer's stamp.

 

Wait...a prescriptive three story deck?

Where? Is that in the WFCM?

 

Where's BC maybe he can help?

Just teasing you.....B

 

This guy's deck isn't wide enough to need BC's input.

 

I am amazed this has not turned into a call an engineer thread.

This is a perfect example of the situations I get in. Do you do what most in here tell me they do and call an engineer which at this size deck your looking at $1500-2000 around here just to bid the job. Or do you do what I and many others do and figure out is its within your capability and skill level and estimate the job on that and give your price. At least in my situation I have never been out money on jobs I didn't get.

I can tell you though that around here that deck wouldn't need any engineered drawings to get a permit. As long as you have proof from the people who make the sips that that method for fastening the ledger is good thats good enough for them.

 

BC I certainly don't know your area but the numbers you throw around seem really light. I can't see how you would be able to push the value of an engineer at those dates. I accommodate more people below the rates I set for the sake of working sometimes but I wouldn't put my beck out this much for a few days of work.

 

DIY kinda guy for sure. And he dodged the snake pit. so far.

J.

 

Wait till Darcy and Killer show up. The venom will be highly acidic (at who I don't know but this thread has fun written all over it)

 

U guys are a tough crowd :whistling

I've built several Sips homes just never had a request from an owner for this type of high level deck.

I thought it would be a simple question, that being the posts design from one level to the second.

Thought you pros could point me in the right direction, I can then go back to the guy drafting the plans with some ideas.

.

 

Just don't ask what killer thinks about Trex or talk bad about steel to Robert - you'll thank me later. The one and only thing I've ever seen on here that pretty much everyone agrees on is Fastenmaster makes good fasteners/products

 

If you think this is a tough crowd I would advise you close your eyes and don't read what inevitable posts are yet to come.

At the end of the day, there are probably 50 guys that could get this done, and I would put a small fortune that all 50 of those guys would seek a stamp of cover my arss if they hadn't had experience in this particular situation.

You should seek someone that has a stamp on their desk and then contribute to the community with a "How To" and "What I learned" article.

None of the wise Contractors, here or elsewhere, will take such responsibility for how something is done on an internet forum when they can have an Architect and/or Engineer shoulder that burden.

I think you're in over your head if you don't know where to turn.

 

If you think this is a tough crowd I would advise you close your eyes and don't read what inevitable posts are yet to come.



At the end of the day, there are probably 50 guys that could get this done, and I would put a small fortune that all 50 of those guys would seek a stamp of cover my arss if they hadn't had experience in this particular situation.



You should seek someone that has a stamp on their desk and then contribute to the community with a "How To" and "What I learned" article.



None of the wise Contractors, here or elsewhere, will take such responsibility for how something is done on an internet forum when they can have an Architect and/or Engineer shoulder that burden.



I think you're in over your head if you don't know where to turn.

Why do you automatically think that people asking for advice are gonna leave this forum or any other and jump in a build something incorrectly.

The point of this forum is to get advice from people who have done this stuff. Some have no problem giving advice yet some give advice that is of zero help at all. If we had to consult an expert on everything from buying tools, designing websites to building a house this forum wouldn't exist as none of us are really experts on what we do. There's always someone way better than you and knows more than you so should we have to consult these people when planning stuff out. Of course not but some how the ones of us who don't consult experts seem to be able to do things right still. Maybe not the way an expert would but way better than any HO or wanna be handy man and I'm sure for most of us permitted too.

Some people on this forum need to get of their high horses. The guys figuring out the plan of action and the best way to go about it. If he was half way through building it then come on here with issues and didn't consult an expert then get back on ya horse and let him have it.

 

I am going to be the cranky guy and say that this is ridiculous.

This is new home construction, including a 3-story deck. When asked about floor assemblies, he responds that the walls don't have 2-bys. He will save time and money by talking with an engineer. For $200 he could have a conversation with an engineer, and if nothing else, learn something. He might save money by not building those 4' piers he's considering.

His location says Georgia and Florida. I'll bet a dollar that this isn't happening in Florida, where licensing and permitting laws are similar to California's. I don't know anything about Georgia.

Edit: Sorry to be talking about you in the 3rd person, Jimbo. You may be a fine guy and genuinely in the contracting business (solar?) but the overall picture here doesn't make sense to me.

 

Georgia is a crapshoot as to how the building department is. Parts of northern Florida, there is no such thing... google Palatka (kidding, kind of).

It is true though, Florida is as tight assed as a virgin in a brothel about engineering. Everything has to have an engineers stamp if its structural and in a v-zone (velocity zone) which I'm assuming he's not in (North central florida). The bottom line is uplift. It means everything in Florida.

OP, you need a lot of hardware and a stamp. While I'm with Barry a lot on the "get an engineer" garbage, you really do need one. I have a serious feeling (I haven't looked because I don't really care enough to) SIPS panels aren't designed for that kind of uplift on a secondary structure (150mph). Furthermore, the building itself needs a stamp, do it like the majority has said as in freestanding and I gave you details as to how the foundation should be built for southern GA/northern Fl. Have the draftsman draw it, take it to the engineer and all is well.

For you guys outside Florida it is normal for us to take plans from a draftsman unstamped to an engineer. If all is well and all he has to do is check the numbers he'll charge a minimal fee for his stamp. If thats what is happening I understand the asking of advice. However I get a strange suspicion we have a guy who sold this wonderful sips building and said "sure we can design that" and then realized "oops".

Careful... Mothers day is almost over.

 

You're right about Fl, just finished the plans on an enclosed lanai with solar glass and shade overhangs, took 5 weeks of back and forth with the building dept asking for additional engineering because I was custom fabricating the window frames and overhangs they we're not familiar with. and this is not in the high wind zone.

Since there was no Fl product approval code the project rose a bunch of red flags, but I got the permit in the end.

The inspections coming up should be more interesting

Ga is another story the joke is you can submit a plan on napkin, no stamps needed at all, they will approve it. They want all plans in 1/8th scale, not sure how they make out the details.

 

I wouldn't assume he's diy. I wouldn't know how to hang it from a SIP.

 

You don't hang this from an SIP.
No engineer would go along with that without major modifications to the home.
I guess one of the disadvantages of an SIP built home have become very obvious.

EthanB, CarpenterSFO and a couple others.......you guys know what your doing and I agree with you but you are being a little hard on the Jimbo because he is asking for our advice.
And he sure got it........lol.

This 3 storey deck will need to be a stand alone structure with some serious engineering with one hell of a foundation........it won't be cheap.
And it'll be ugly....someone already said that.
Someone should of thought of this BEFORE the house was built.
However...
CarpenterSFO brought up a good point......if the home has a conventionally framed floor system then that would make a good support and anchor for this deck.
But Jimbo would have used that already and wouldn't be here asking us how....... which maybe means he can't.
Which means.......get an engineer and spend lots of money.

 

I'm going to start bidding solar jobs as long as you want to do deck work.:whistling

Than I'm going to the solar crowd and ask them for help:laughing:

 

be careful you don't get shocked

 

Only thing that shocks me is you appear to have little experience building decks and want to ask how to do it? Maybe it's your house?
which makes you a homeowner and not a pro.

Hope it works well for you, all the liability you will create doing it for someone else will be expensive in court.

 

I can't see solar being a main livelihood but it must work for You Jimbo.

Besides building strange decks fastened to even stranger things, are you plugging houses into Tesla Batteries ?

May as well let the Man talk about something He knows .