I don't know if this would be legal, but consumers have resources to check on contractors to see if they have any complaints logged against them. It would be nice if contractors had resources to check on potential customers. I have been in business for myself since February of 2001. In all that time, I have been fortunate working for reasonable people but I am finally up against a customer from hell. I would like to wring their necks but it occured to me that if there were a black list of bad clients and associated horror stories, as contractors, we would have a resource to avoid trouble or at least vent.
Waffle Face
The Better Consumer Bureau (BCB):laughing:
Mr & Mrs Johnson
123 Nowhere Rd
Bumtuck Idaho
Received 8 estimates on their bathroom job (June 01-08, 2007)
In house estimate hours: 8
Questions asked: 1 million
Layouts received: 2
Wasted gas: $40
Phone time wasted: 8 hrs
Contracts signed: 0
Reason: Collected all the information, went to Home Depot, bought materials and retained services of Son in-law (I.T. guy) to finish job.
0 Stars
Status: Red alert (Blacklisted).
Welcome to the board. 90% of our posts are grievances. In time you'll find plenty of solutions on how to handle them. There's good people here...just stay out of the P&R section:laughing:
Mr & Mrs Johnson
123 Nowhere Rd
Bumtuck Idaho
Received 8 estimates on their bathroom job (June 01-08, 2007)
In house estimate hours: 8
Questions asked: 1 million
Layouts received: 2
Wasted gas: $40
Phone time wasted: 8 hrs
Contracts signed: 0
Reason: Collected all the information, went to Home Depot, bought materials and retained services of Son in-law (I.T. guy) to finish job.
0 Stars
Status: Red alert (Blacklisted).
Welcome to the board. 90% of our posts are grievances. In time you'll find plenty of solutions on how to handle them. There's good people here...just stay out of the P&R section:laughing:
We have this already and it's called, are you ready, we are all already members... Credit Bureaus. Experian, TransUnion & Equifax are the main 3.
There have been quite a few BCB type websites and each has been taken down by scum bags who were posted and found out, and sued the site's owners. One that comes to mind is "IhateDeadBeats.com" which I think is no longer in service.
There have been quite a few BCB type websites and each has been taken down by scum bags who were posted and found out, and sued the site's owners. One that comes to mind is "IhateDeadBeats.com" which I think is no longer in service.
I know a guy that did a job...customer started telling him he hadn't completed the job, refused to pay, even though he had a signed contract.
Customer attempted to call the inspector to claim there was additional work, inspector read off what the permit had been pulled for and corrected her, she still refused to pay.
He called a few times over a 3 month period, she never returned the calls, he's seeking legal help as well.
One night for giggles I enter his name into a websearch to see where his site ranks...he comes up on Angies list.
The customer had listed him as a scam, gave Angies bad contact info so they were unable to contact him to refute the allegations.
He contacted Angie's and got the runaround even though he explained that his work had been signed off and she had stiffed him, not the other way around.
His name is still there.
Customer attempted to call the inspector to claim there was additional work, inspector read off what the permit had been pulled for and corrected her, she still refused to pay.
He called a few times over a 3 month period, she never returned the calls, he's seeking legal help as well.
One night for giggles I enter his name into a websearch to see where his site ranks...he comes up on Angies list.
The customer had listed him as a scam, gave Angies bad contact info so they were unable to contact him to refute the allegations.
He contacted Angie's and got the runaround even though he explained that his work had been signed off and she had stiffed him, not the other way around.
His name is still there.
payment schedules
One way in which i have protected myself is to schedule payments so that work never got much further than the payments. I made the mistake in this job by letting the work go too far before collecting money. Trust is a bad business practice. I have noticed that customers use payments to leverage extras out of you. Before handing over the check, they ask for favors. I don't mind doing little things but some times this can get rather irritating. Sometimes small things are not small. Like after you removed your compressor, nail gun, table saw, and other heavy tools from the job and some one wants you to do a small extra that requires these items to come back. If the job is on the third or fourth floor, this compounds the issue. Anyway, thanks for the replies. I am new to this forum but I hope to tap some know how here in the future. I never stop learning new things in this business.
One way in which i have protected myself is to schedule payments so that work never got much further than the payments. I made the mistake in this job by letting the work go too far before collecting money. Trust is a bad business practice. I have noticed that customers use payments to leverage extras out of you. Before handing over the check, they ask for favors. I don't mind doing little things but some times this can get rather irritating. Sometimes small things are not small. Like after you removed your compressor, nail gun, table saw, and other heavy tools from the job and some one wants you to do a small extra that requires these items to come back. If the job is on the third or fourth floor, this compounds the issue. Anyway, thanks for the replies. I am new to this forum but I hope to tap some know how here in the future. I never stop learning new things in this business.
My steadfast rule, I never,ever use my own money to pay for a job. Stay equal or ahead with payments at all times. Of course, in states like leftafornia, this may not be possible because of governmental interference. Loan draws can also throw monkey wrenches into the equation. In those cases, just stay as close to equal or ahead as you're allowed.
The problem is one or two day jobs, are you going to ask the customer for a draw at lunch time beause the job is half done? We sometimes have to take risks. I get a downpayment of about 30% usually and most jobs last onely a day, sometimes two. So unless I have a 300% markup I'm always going to be spending my own money to complete jobs and then praying not to get stiffed.
I get stiffed about once a year. Last year I got stiffed three times but THIS MONTH we were finally able to negotiate with 2 of them, I did not get full payment. Infact I lost money, but by getting paid something I lost less money... plus they have no warranty so that's the only consulation prize I have.
Really though all we can do is to use the credit bureaus, and yes anyone can run a credit check. It's like $15. Get them to sign a piece of paper saying you can, or include it as a standard line in your contracts. Explain to them that you are making a essentially making a loan to them during the coarse of the work, and just need to make sure they are capable of paying it back.
Really you don't even need their permission. I mean with the internet you can find otu anything about anyone.
You can also check with your clerk of the court and see if they have any current legal battles or judgements against them. The method of doing this will vary from court to court.
Though we may do all our due dilligence, you are bound to get stiffed from time to time so about all you can really do is make sure youa re charging enough to have a bit of savings to float you when it happens, mark it up into your bottom line essentially spreading the cost for those that don't pay to those that do pay so you don't have to pay... and having written policies in place that you follow each and every time for each and every customer.
For example, I give many of my customers a curtoesy grace period of about 7 days after the job is done to pay, unless I am having bad feelings. We just mail/email/fax an invoice, and give them 5-7 days before it's due. At the due date, we mail/email/fax another invoice but this time include a credit card authorization form (just incase they didn't budget properly and are too scared to admit it). If we haven't gotten anything a few days later we give them a call, and send a reminder letter.
Usually at this point you know if you are going to get paid or not. If you've gotten no response what so ever consider the next step. I like to ask my accountant to call for me, he sounds important and official. Plus he is unbiased and has always been able to collect if the person is willing to speak with him.
Even with all the policies in place it's goign to happen from time to time.
I get stiffed about once a year. Last year I got stiffed three times but THIS MONTH we were finally able to negotiate with 2 of them, I did not get full payment. Infact I lost money, but by getting paid something I lost less money... plus they have no warranty so that's the only consulation prize I have.
Really though all we can do is to use the credit bureaus, and yes anyone can run a credit check. It's like $15. Get them to sign a piece of paper saying you can, or include it as a standard line in your contracts. Explain to them that you are making a essentially making a loan to them during the coarse of the work, and just need to make sure they are capable of paying it back.
Really you don't even need their permission. I mean with the internet you can find otu anything about anyone.
You can also check with your clerk of the court and see if they have any current legal battles or judgements against them. The method of doing this will vary from court to court.
Though we may do all our due dilligence, you are bound to get stiffed from time to time so about all you can really do is make sure youa re charging enough to have a bit of savings to float you when it happens, mark it up into your bottom line essentially spreading the cost for those that don't pay to those that do pay so you don't have to pay... and having written policies in place that you follow each and every time for each and every customer.
For example, I give many of my customers a curtoesy grace period of about 7 days after the job is done to pay, unless I am having bad feelings. We just mail/email/fax an invoice, and give them 5-7 days before it's due. At the due date, we mail/email/fax another invoice but this time include a credit card authorization form (just incase they didn't budget properly and are too scared to admit it). If we haven't gotten anything a few days later we give them a call, and send a reminder letter.
Usually at this point you know if you are going to get paid or not. If you've gotten no response what so ever consider the next step. I like to ask my accountant to call for me, he sounds important and official. Plus he is unbiased and has always been able to collect if the person is willing to speak with him.
Even with all the policies in place it's goign to happen from time to time.
I have in my contract a clause that says payment on completion. It also says that if I haven't been paid in full within 5 days of said completion, the warranty is void. It excludes small things like adjustments and whatnot. Unfortunately, when this happens, people think the terms of the contract apply only to me, not them. Once in a while I will send out a letter to a customer voiding the warranty because of late payment of underpayment (you'd be amazed how many people think they've been slighted for some reason, but they really only want $100 or $200 off the price). I've had them call up in a tizzie becasue of that. I tell them they either should have paid when asked, or paid the full amount. Occiasionally, I actually get a cheque in the mail for the "outstanding balance". So, I kindly re-instate the warranty.
Had one a couple years ago, who took 4 months to pay. Called a year later because of a loose screw on the gate hinge. (It could have been repaired with a penny as a screwdriver). I told him I'd fix it.... in 4 months!
Had one a couple years ago, who took 4 months to pay. Called a year later because of a loose screw on the gate hinge. (It could have been repaired with a penny as a screwdriver). I told him I'd fix it.... in 4 months!
I wonder, is it possible for contractors to join the credit bureau?
If so,
we could report all non-payments or late payments. Before we have
customers fill out contracts, we could have them fill out a sheet for a credit
report, just like those weird new employment applications they sell now.
Then, whenever we look at their credit report, we could pay special attention to payments made to contractors.:clap:
If so, we could report all non-payments or late payments. Before we have
customers fill out contracts, we could have them fill out a sheet for a credit
report, just like those weird new employment applications they sell now.
Then, whenever we look at their credit report, we could pay special attention to payments made to contractors.:clap:
catch 'em early....
After having had some customers who became difficult on paying or were just super hard to work with it reminded me of the old hobo method of showing other hobos who were the generous folks and those that were mean or would call the cops on you. You must recognize this was during the depression and many many men were out of work and just trying to find a sandwich, or some simple work. They would leave a sign to the next guy that came along by writing on the curb or mailbox or front step that designated the owners disposition. If they were generous and kind they would draw one symbol, maybe a circle...if they were mean and unkind maybe a square or a triangle.
This gave the next guy some warning about their up and coming meeting...How about developing a system like this to tell if the customer is trustworthy or not, checks aren't good or goes back on their word. Right now we haven't got much to go on except blind luck and trust.
Joe.
After having had some customers who became difficult on paying or were just super hard to work with it reminded me of the old hobo method of showing other hobos who were the generous folks and those that were mean or would call the cops on you. You must recognize this was during the depression and many many men were out of work and just trying to find a sandwich, or some simple work. They would leave a sign to the next guy that came along by writing on the curb or mailbox or front step that designated the owners disposition. If they were generous and kind they would draw one symbol, maybe a circle...if they were mean and unkind maybe a square or a triangle.
This gave the next guy some warning about their up and coming meeting...How about developing a system like this to tell if the customer is trustworthy or not, checks aren't good or goes back on their word. Right now we haven't got much to go on except blind luck and trust.
Joe.
It is legal to operate a blacklist
Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act states that owners of websites such as forums are not legally responsible for the content on their website.
You could easily create a forum where you can discuss bad customers and suffer no legal ramifications.
Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act states that owners of websites such as forums are not legally responsible for the content on their website.
You could easily create a forum where you can discuss bad customers and suffer no legal ramifications.
Yes I too have just one BAD customer wanna get paid to burn down his house???....................................................................................................................Just Kiddin!:whistling
Rick:thumbup:
A bad client or two a year is to be expected.
There are some real low-lifes out there.
I'll present the bill no more than a couple times, then it becomes a matter of diminishing returns.
Best to move on and put the bad stuff behind you.
Big jobs?
That's different.
Payment schedules should be in the contract and work should stop immediately if payment is not according to schedule.
Unfortunately, using the court system is part of doing business these days.
Be in the right, and be first.
r
There are some real low-lifes out there.
I'll present the bill no more than a couple times, then it becomes a matter of diminishing returns.
Best to move on and put the bad stuff behind you.
Big jobs?
That's different.
Payment schedules should be in the contract and work should stop immediately if payment is not according to schedule.
Unfortunately, using the court system is part of doing business these days.
Be in the right, and be first.
r
Has anyone on CT ever used this Business Beware site www.businessbeware.biz and can shed some light for us?
There is a place to post bad custoemrs
Waffleface:
I have been a contractor for over 15 years and have had my fair share of bad eggs. I usually post my experiences on removed
Hope this helps
Waffleface:
I have been a contractor for over 15 years and have had my fair share of bad eggs. I usually post my experiences on removed
Hope this helps
Here is the rub. There is Angie's list and many other sites where a home owner can rate a contractor. But if we try to make a site where we rate the homeowner we can get in trouble? How does Angie's List get away with what they do? I am a plumber's Service Plumber meaning I subcontract for lots of other plumbers. A few of them get their calls off of Angie's List and the home owners always end up calling the owner of the shop i am representing with a threat like "If you do not lower your price I will give you a bad review" Or like the poster in this thread stated a buddy of his got burned and never got paid by the home owner but the home owner still slandered the contractor on the site.
I have had a few people hire me to do a job and had no intentions to pay us. One job the Owner of a rental property showed up , showed me what needed to be done and told me to call him when I am finished. I called when I was done, he said he was busy, to just leave a bill with the tenet and he would send a check. Of course no check ever came, and he changed his phone numbers. We just ended putting a lien on his property. Had others right us the check all happy for the work we had done, only to get it back NSF or STOP PAYMENT. Again property liens worked for us in these cases.
I have had a few people hire me to do a job and had no intentions to pay us. One job the Owner of a rental property showed up , showed me what needed to be done and told me to call him when I am finished. I called when I was done, he said he was busy, to just leave a bill with the tenet and he would send a check. Of course no check ever came, and he changed his phone numbers. We just ended putting a lien on his property. Had others right us the check all happy for the work we had done, only to get it back NSF or STOP PAYMENT. Again property liens worked for us in these cases.
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