It is not unusual for me to be the youngest guy on site at 52.

I know a handful of younger guys, but not many 20 year olds.

It is the culmination of 2 decades of being told you need a college degree to make any money.

Funny thing. There is way more money in the trades than in most starter positions out of college.

And with some experience, there is good money to be made.
Kids just don't want to work for it.




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And with some experience, there is good money to be made.
Kids just don't want to work for it.
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Let's put this "kids don't want to work for it" myth to bed once and for all.

Kids have seen their fathers and uncles be the first to be fired and the last to be rehired during recessions. They've seen the dearth of benefits in residential construction and the wage-lowering unfair competition from our government's lack of securing our nation's borders.

The kids aren't lazy or stupid; they're smart for wanting no part. Who wants their daughter to marry a tradesman? No, everyone's little Suzie deserves a doctor or lawyer. The kids want more than jobs, they want a wife someday too.

 

Id say there is merit to kids not wanting to work, however neither did I until I got a little older then things just clicked. I am 25 and look forward to the many years a head learning to work hard. Thanks for your comment.

 

Yes, construction requires hard work...

But learn to work SMART....

 

If people want houses, roads etc there will have to be.

 

Sort of, they are booming for the guys that join up, but for some it can take a long time to start turning any profit, and for others, they end up just working for wages for 30 years only to end up broken and tired.

Honestly, if I had to rewind I would either go union, or do the smart thing and get a degree in something like engineering.

Hard work kind of sucks compared to the other options, but at least it remains pretty steady.

 

It’s the weak and the egg heads who put some kind of artificial value on earning money with the least amount of physical effort. Our society cannot be composed of people who sit at a desk for every job. Everyone gets about 80 years of life, maybe, and as long as you provide for your family, being a man’s man in construction can be amazing.

 

The trades are not dead and never will be. They are an integral part of our economy.

I see more kids opting for the trades as they see that after 3-4 years they are making more than college grads.

When demand is high the trades will pay wages, percs & bennies to attract individuals.

Now the caveat is, unlike a 30k a year cubicle rat, a successful tradesman will have to show an awesome work ethic, a desire to learn and grow, and have the mindset that at times you have to pitch in to do whatever it takes to gey the job done. In other words that saying "it aint my job" is out the window and not in their vocabulary...

Those that are the first to be laid off and the last rehired...there is a reason for that.

 

That's pretty accurate. I would add that there seems to be more and more specialization in the trades. I had a hardwood floor guy that flat out refused to nail a board to a vertical surface. Had a step down into a family room and I had to put the riser in. Then he very carefully masked it off so none of the floor finish would get on it. It was insane.
My new hardwood floor guy has a crew where each step is done by a different fellow. I felt sorry for the guy that only runs the disk sander. He spends every hour of every day bent over sanding the perimeter of the floor. The thing about that job is you know you're never going to have a good day.

 

There's absolutely good money to be made as a tradesman, but you have to be in the upper ranks to really rake it in.

A mediocre worker at a desk job can put in a couple of decades at it and be ahead of the game compared to a mediocre construction worker. over the same time period. Pay raises for office workers tend to be more automatic and less merit-based than in the construction industry, and there are generally more benefits offered by the employer, including medical and retirement plans.

Of course, chances are he doesn't have the skills we do, so winds up spending that extra money to pay us to do what he can't. And paying for that gym membership to get the exercise not available at his desk.

Overall, IMO neither of us should really be sneering at the other. As long as what you do pays the bills and doesn't keep you awake at night, it's all good.

 

That's a good point too, if everyone was a tradesman, we wouldn't have nearly as much work.

Also, you should still work out in addition to work, I'm pretty sure squats and deadlifts are one of the biggest things helping keep me upright now, 40 is coming for me fast and I'm thinking it's going to just hurt more each week from here on out.

 

It doesn't matter which trade or career you enter... you're going to get out of it what you put it into... that's a timeless fact...

What's missing on both fronts, is life and management skills... from learning that it's not what you make but what you keep that matters, and that your goals need to line up to maximize that... kids look at their parents in a nice home, etc. and think that's what I want not appreciating it took time to get there... they want it all NOW... so they get themselves into huge amounts of debt trying to get it NOW... from cars, to $1000 phones (but it's ONLY $30/month for three years), bigger house than they need at the early stage of life, name the item as the list goes on and on... every one of the wealth stealing purchases are easily justified because... we want it and it has to be one of the socially acceptable versions...

Then they have a life event that puts them even farther behind and before you know it they're working two jobs just to make ends meet or in the trades, taking any job that can give them a paycheck no matter how small... usually has the effect of souring them towards whatever work they do and start looking for "the thing" that's going to solve all their problems without realization that's just making them take a different form without addressing the underlying issues... human nature... we just want to make whatever is causing us angst go away...

Those who COMMIT to whatever career or trade they enter and become the "go-to" person (whether employee or business owner) eventually start realizing that they're the own worst enemy and after that light bulb goes off they work to get out of their own way and coincidentally things start clicking for them leading to the long term success they were after...

Life will ALWAYS throw something in to test you along the way...

IMO, in today's envionment, the trades are getting ready for a rebirth as a career option (the more people in the country, the more that things needs to built and fixed), but my concern is that the dearth between those stay on the entry level struggling along and those who treat it like the career it is will grow...

 

Their talking about unionizing AMAZON you could have a scenario where a box handler will have benefits, time paid off and low responsibility monkey work and a decent check.

Compare this to a guy paying for his own equipment, insured out the azz, managing own taxes, no discount healthcare, responsible for everything they touch a couple of years after a day they touch something, connected to thousands of dollars of product in order to work all for not a single day paid off and no security.......
In fact you could be profitable and good half the month or year and then something falls apart with weather or product and it averages into you only end up meeting the overhead.

Hard truth Not good for the trades

 

Their talking about unionizing AMAZON you could have a scenario where a box handler will have benefits, time paid off and low responsibility monkey work and a decent check.

Compare this to a guy paying for his own equipment, insured out the azz, managing own taxes, no discount healthcare, responsible for everything they touch a couple of years after a day they touch something, connected to thousands of dollars of product in order to work all for not a single day paid off and no security.......
In fact you could be profitable and good half the month or year and then something falls apart with weather or product and it averages into you only end up meeting the overhead.

Hard truth Not good for the trades

This big time. Problem with trades is it is low profit activity. Posted back then f farma like Pfizer make 700K of revenue per employee and 30% profit of it.
It shine in my head after 30 years of deep thinking that I should at minimum earn from financial side of construction (realtor, mortgage agent, home inspection) same money like from technical side or I'm f up.
Last sentence in comment that I quoted. Do not forget guys that has bad back and come to company only to sue it after one month of work.

 

If the younguns don't go into the trade us old guys will be making a lot more change because you'll have to beg us to do your job. Which is why they want the illegals to come and do it for $10/hr

 

^^^ Hence is best be in trades that need licensing. Talked with electrician other day. He said he is at 750$/day.

 

I would be extremely proud to have my daughters marry trades people. I'd probably start a lot more relaxed with them then I would anyone going to school. While my friends were partying in school I was sweating last nights drinking session out at 6 am. My daughters are not a commodity that can be bought and sold, I want the best for them and for them to have someone who treats them like they deserve, someone who will be there through thick and thin. I can't think of a better thing to prepare a young man for the world like the trades do, probably the military but there ain't nothing in school that teaches like hard knocks.

If you want to get ahead in the trades here, its not real difficult. If you fish in the right ponds, those doctors and lawyers will envy what you get to do with your family and still provide a good life. I know on my deathbed I won't be wishing I made more money. Beyond making enough not to worry, I don't really know anyone who is happier because they have more. That mindset is a cancer that you can't escape from and will lead you to the poor house.

Furthermore desk jockeys do what, get to brag they got to sit for 30 years? Maybe they had a good, fun, stimulating job. The big things in their life still happened after work. Us, the entire ride is an adventure. Those 4 years my friends were in college I was learning how to be tougher than most, how to be responsible for my actions, manage money, and overall do the things they did and more. My wife's story from college to here is a couple out of control Christmas parties. I get to tell her at times about things like the time a neighbor came over and was freaking out because her son was crazy and said he was going to kill her. That was quite the day. Or when I watched guys fall off a roof. Or when guys come to blows on commercial sites.

Reminds me of the Robert Frost poem...

"And I - I took the road less traveled by"

And I wouldn't trade it for anything.

 

All these people who don't know how to do anything but work on computers better make a lot of money. Because most of them don't know how to unscrew a light bulb. They need all that money to pay other people to do simple things. I can't imagine being mechanically illiterate, but there are so many people like that and more being bred every day.

 

All these people who don't know how to do anything but work on computers better make a lot of money. Because most of them don't know how to unscrew a light bulb. They need all that money to pay other people to do simple things. I can't imagine being mechanically illiterate, but there are so many people like that and more being bred every day.

No chit. My house had 200k in equity and a loe payment when I finished building it. Thsts not because I am good at business its because I know how to do things other people pay huge money for. My outdoor kitchen and camper shed I imagine I saved 17-20k on alone just this year

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You tube videos provide answers and demonstration to a lot otherwise uncapable desk jockies

Licensing for trades is like protected labor. Part of me says it's time the insurance companies demand better licensing for carpentry......the other part says it's impose to enforce and nothing will change other than more bold Diyers. Like that dumb Lead Paint Renovate Right. By the letter no one will ever higher you outside of a HUD program.

 

You tube videos provide answers and demonstration to a lot otherwise uncapable desk jockies

Licensing for trades is like protected labor. Part of me says it's time the insurance companies demand better licensing for carpentry......the other part says it's impose to enforce and nothing will change other than more bold Diyers. Like that dumb Lead Paint Renovate Right. By the letter no one will ever higher you outside of a HUD program.

The only thing that will do is make a new money cow for the states. They'll barley regulate it and they'll only go after guys who are trying to comply. The shlubs that don't get licensed are invisible to them unless they are reported. or they do a sting.

 

I'll take the freedom over more money any day. I get why guys want to get bigger, it's the next challenge and guys who are driven love the next challenge not necessarily for the money. For me personally the challenge was to make enough money to have maximum freedom. I did that and the next big thing I'm setting up is to try to find a way into these art galleries downtown and start selling whatever I want to build rather then someone else wants to.

Its a strange world to try to get into but the guys I know who do it, make a killing and travel all over the world making buttloads of money. Its a different kind of challenge but I enjoy it. Ultimately, I wanna find a way to get paid 40 hrs for 10 hrs of work, hah. Not sure I'll ever get to that point but the trades aren't going to die. I know some college kids who are starting to second guess their college choice and telling others they should go figure out a trade.

Lots of little niches to get into in the trades world, from the world of business and selling to the world of artistry and pinky out champagne meetings. Opportunity really is only hindered by the person running it. If you wanna be a doctor or engineer, school makes sense. If it's business, get out there and try to make your way in life. The trades provide that much opportunity. Lots of Indians out there with few chiefs, the trades provide a chance for the chief and not as much for the Indians, unless those employees want to work hard and make their own way someday as well. And some will just like to work with their hands. Nothing better than an honest days wages knowing you worked for it. Sitting as a desk jockey for a year I never felt fulfilled when I went home.

 

There's a lot of people who don't understand that. Making money isn't what life is all about. It's nice, but time is usually nicer. You still have to make decent cash to have time off to do those things though.

 

Some people want to eliminate that college debt with the stroke of a pen further alienating everyone that already paid or didn't choose that option but it's forced to pay.

these computers are becoming more self-sufficient what kind of jobs are we creating are we just marketing Chinese product and managing that? We just talked about Google their cookies and marketing algorithms doing the work for marketing companies

 

Most tradesmen work for someone else and that makes it unlikely that you will be making a killing,.

 

Since all teachers are college degreed individuals, they feel they are somehow superior for having this education and have pushed the agenda that all kids should go to college and working with your hands and getting dirty is for "second class citizens". They have the ears and of attention of our kids for 12 years of their lives, so they can make those ideas sink in. Their message has pushed young adults away from the trades for several decades now and that is why we are seeing the labor shortages, aging construction workforce, etc.

It's really our own fault as contractors for not doing a better job combatting this. We need to get the pay up as high as possible and give all of our people good benefit packages including; paid vacations & holidays, health insurance, retirement programs, a safe & clean work environment, etc. We also need to do a better job promoting our businesses and trades to young people in our communities to develop the interest early. Some contractors understand this, are implementing these strategies and are doing a great job recruiting new young people. Until more get on board, it will be a problem.

 

have pushed the agenda that all kids should go to college and working with your hands and getting dirty is for "second class citizens".

Over the years here we have talked about what some of our lives were like as children growing up and the different things we got into...good and bad. One common denominator is...we all played outside with a group of other kids. We got dirty, we got hurt and we lived.

So many kids today just aren't aware what "outside" has to offer. They are so busy inside with video games and such...
Tough to get those kids motivated with a hammer or saw or whatever, if they have never gotten dirty or had to make/build anything. A kid that's been inside his entire life probably isn't going to opt for "a trade" where physical work and getting dirty is involved.

 

I’ve been on both sides of this argument. My parents sent me to college hoping I would not have to work in the steel mill like my dad did for 50 years (he was a lineman).

I got three degrees in six years of college. When I came out, I was recruited by two fortune 50 companies. Took a job with one of them and stayed for 10 years. I earned my fourth degree taking classes at night. At the end of the ten years (1989), I left them making over $200k a year.

During that 10-year stint, I never looked down on a tradesman. I always admired them. They were the builders of things. They worked to make things work. I wanted to build things.

When I left, my dad thought I was nuts. I also think he was a little embarrassed (sent his kid to college, only to have me go into construction). After 20 years, of running my own business, I think he finally saw that I was more than just a tradesman. I was a businessman in the trades. I was using what I learned in college and 10 years in the corporate world to elevate my trade and business.

It’s hard for me to think about not letting my daughters marry a tradesman. That just seems ridiculous to me. My oldest daughter is my business partner and a tradesman. She works side-by-side with me every day. I personally think there is a huge benefit for women in the trades – that’s a different topic we can discuss elsewhere.

Of my three kids, one got a college degree. The other two did a semester… quit and went to work. I believe there is a benefit to going to college, but I don’t see the benefit of a degree unless it’s in the sciences.

While the teachers have pushed kids into college, there is a generation of us that helped this along. My degrees were worth a lot of money. Hence, I thought my kids should follow in my footsteps (I pushed my oldest into college). I didn’t see the world changing in front of me at the time. My attitude changed drastically when it came time for the two younger ones to go to college.

When it came time for the two younger ones, I believed they should have the college experience/opportunity. If they decided on the sciences, I would have told them to stay with it. If they decided-on pursuing a degree in animal masturbation, they would have to go it alone.

The trades are in serious trouble. We’re a dying breed. I don’t see it turning around soon or quickly.

 

I’ve been on both sides of this argument. My parents sent me to college hoping I would not have to work in the steel mill like my dad did for 50 years (he was a lineman).

I got three degrees in six years of college. When I came out, I was recruited by two fortune 50 companies. Took a job with one of them and stayed for 10 years. I earned my fourth degree taking classes at night. At the end of the ten years (1989), I left them making over $200k a year.

During that 10-year stint, I never looked down on a tradesman. I always admired them. They were the builders of things. They worked to make things work. I wanted to build things.

When I left, my dad thought I was nuts. I also think he was a little embarrassed (sent his kid to college, only to have me go into construction). After 20 years, of running my own business, I think he finally saw that I was more than just a tradesman. I was a businessman in the trades. I was using what I learned in college and 10 years in the corporate world to elevate my trade and business.

It’s hard for me to think about not letting my daughters marry a tradesman. That just seems ridiculous to me. My oldest daughter is my business partner and a tradesman. She works side-by-side with me every day. I personally think there is a huge benefit for women in the trades – that’s a different topic we can discuss elsewhere.

Of my three kids, one got a college degree. The other two did a semester… quit and went to work. I believe there is a benefit to going to college, but I don’t see the benefit of a degree unless it’s in the sciences.

While the teachers have pushed kids into college, there is a generation of us that helped this along. My degrees were worth a lot of money. Hence, I thought my kids should follow in my footsteps (I pushed my oldest into college). I didn’t see the world changing in front of me at the time. My attitude changed drastically when it came time for the two younger ones to go to college.

When it came time for the two younger ones, I believed they should have the college experience/opportunity. If they decided on the sciences, I would have told them to stay with it. If they decided-on pursuing a degree in animal masturbation, they would have to go it alone.

The trades are in serious trouble. We’re a dying breed. I don’t see it turning around soon or quickly.

Well said

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I agree with a lot of what has been said, there is a huge shortage of help. On the other side, most of the vocational schools here you need to take a placement test and there is a long waiting list. People have realized college isn't for everyone and can be a 50k party. I'm 38 and was berated about going to a voc and not going to college. My buddies parents called me a few years ago for work before selling, their kid went to college and they really tried to push me to. He got into drugs and got sober and cuts tress for a living. She said I wish I sent him to the voc and he learned a trade, you can always go back to school.

Then there's the fact that the young ones that come here with questions get told to go flip burgers. We were all there and we need to encourage these guys to be better, not go internet tough guy. I bet we can count on one hand the amount of guys not moonlighting before going on their own. In 10 years I bet we see an influx of younger people getting in the trades. I will say, 99% of my customers have a degree and most a masters or phd.

 

I agree 99% of my clients have degrees as well, but just like I said earlier none of them are rin of the mill. VP or higher or own the show. If we go with that you have to go with tradesman in the top 10% of their class and earnings too.

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Trades are a dying breed because they treated them as electives in schools and that evolved into non essential today unless your critical to the operation of government
This is evolution of progressive thinking. Dreaming up doomsday global scenarios instead preserving what is essential with day to day life.

 

One guy we are building a 700k house on a 450k lot for is a cop.

At some point he was a patrolman - now he's in charge of a massive dept.
One of my clients is a retired General. At one point he was actually a Second Lt. One is a retired Col, he was once a private.

We going to use their income and lifestyles for the aggregate of solders and cops? I know a retired cop down the road who lives in a 90k house and waits at the mailbox for his check. You get the picture.


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If I had a kid want to go behind me (my kids or nephew or a godson or maybe just a chosen hand) I would see college as an elective, I can teach them a lot more about real business than their profs from what I've seen, more about real estate, sales, leadership and how to actually build and manage a multi milliondollar company and make money at it.

But they start in the ditch, and maybe the most valuable skill I would teach them is how to actually build houses, and not just how they are built.

They can write their own ticket at that point. You want a truly custom built home 25 years from now the dude building it will be getting paid big big money to do it. Have a little dude to fill tea glasses when the ring the bell [emoji38]

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Jaws, I agree they seem to put a upper crust doctors salary again a HS dropout who got into roofing. I have a customer who is a mechanic, and a very good one. I've done siding and windows, two bathrooms, 2 sliders, a 2nd story deck ect. He has never gotten a 2nd quote or questioned the price. He is meticulous and that's what he wants at his house.

IMO, you can make good money at almost any job. Key is not wanting to put in the 8 hours and go home. NYCB, it sounds like you are just sick of the trades. I know a fair amount of people who have switched careers at our point in life. Hell I was a crew trainer at Mcdonalds at 16 and assitant manager at a shoe store at 17. Watching 30 year old AM get pissed as a high school kid made the same.

 

Jaws, I agree they seem to put a upper crust doctors salary again a HS dropout who got into roofing. I have a customer who is a mechanic, and a very good one. I've done siding and windows, two bathrooms, 2 sliders, a 2nd story deck ect. He has never gotten a 2nd quote or questioned the price. He is meticulous and that's what he wants at his house.

IMO, you can make good money at almost any job. Key is not wanting to put in the 8 hours and go home. NYCB, it sounds like you are just sick of the trades. I know a fair amount of people who have switched careers at our point in life. Hell I was a crew trainer at Mcdonalds at 16 and assitant manager at a shoe store at 17. Watching 30 year old AM get pissed as a high school kid made the same.

Not really sick of the trade, sick of the other nonsense. Insurance, taxes, selling jobs, most of that sucks.

I can't go be an employee though because it wouldn't pay what I want, and the jobs that do would put me out of town all week long.

I am reaching a spot where it seems like going to school would have been the better option, especially when I see where others that went that route are at now, they work far less to live pretty comfortably.

Like I said, I think we just need to be honest with expectations when pointing people to the trades. Sure you'll make a pile of money if you are out on the highway, or welding on a gas pad, or doing commercial electrical, but a lot of those guys have enough drive that school would have paid out for them also.

The truth is, if you want to be home every night and make a killing, most guys in the trades are going to put in a lot more time and energy than their degree holding peers to get there. The old "work now so you don't have to later" trope, they did their work in school, we do ours now.