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GC keeps asking for bids, but hasn't given me any work yet. -Subcontractor

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#21 ·
You're pricing his jobs for him.

Give a price, that's it. No details other than a quick scope of work.

I'll do a full takeoff any day of the week.....for $500.

On projects with sealed bids it's a different story, because you know all the bids are getting opened the same day and they are taking the lowest or almost lowest guy, no big deal.

If you're sending in a full takeoff though, he can forward it to his preferred installer as leverage, or just use that for his own pricing and do it in house.
 
#22 ·
I went down this road a few times many years ago. Generally it would be a huge remodel, and our phase would be demo, frame, exterior siding. Would always include a midday site visit that would also eat up several hours. Eventually, I decided that I would only do two, and that would be it, work or not. My time is extremely valuable to me. Anymore, I would only spend an hour and give a ballpark price, then do the job T&M if it came up.
 
#23 ·
Joeyther said:
Hi,

I'm new to the forum and a new electrical contractor. I have a GC who keeps sending me plan sets and asks for bids. I try my best to provide extremely detailed quotes in a short time. He was impressed when he saw my first estimate. Here is the problem. I've just spent 4 days on a really complicated estimate for a high-end residential home which amounted to nearly $150,000. He thanked me and said he forwarded it to the client. This was my 6th estimate for him. He has just sent me 2 more plan sets to bid, but he hasn't given me any work yet. I'm starting to feel being taken advantage of. Communication is almost nonexistent besides emails. I feel like he's using my outstanding quality quotes and uses another contractor. I don't mind giving estimates, but there is a limit before I get the urge to charge for my time. I have other GCs I work with.

Should I stop bidding for him and move on from this GC? What do you think?

Thanks
Click to expand...
It would be nice if I could use the absolute best (and usually the highest priced) sub for every trade and every job, that is just not the real world in home building. Usually I have 35-40 subs I use on each house I build, of those 4-5 are mid-priced and the rest are on the high side in pricing, 1-2 might actually be low priced. For example, I have 2 plumbers who bid my jobs, they are mid to high in price and quality. I prefer to use the high end plumber, but sometimes I use the mid priced sub if I think it is suitable. But they both get a share of my work. The minimum priced house I will build is $2 million (house only, not including land price), so I am not using low quality cheap subs. The high priced subs are the best, the 4-5 mid-priced subs are good but not the best in terms of operation and quality, to be competitive I have to mix in a few moderately priced companies. .

If I ask a sub to price my work, if they are not awarded a job after 4-5 times of bidding, I move on. I don't want to take advantage of their time. I think it is absolutely reasonable for a face to face before you bid another job, clear the air, do you really have a chance to work for this guy. Finally, I have also seen a sub low ball to get their 1st job with us, then incrementally increase from there. Not saying you should do that, but I have seen that happen.
 
#24 ·
Age old problem in this business. As a GC I was always amazed regarding how many subs would turn in a quote then never follow up until they saw us building the job, then they'd b#tch to me wondering why they didn't get the work. The time to follow up is shortly after turning in your quote, early and often regarding where you stand, etc. Make scope changes if you need to and turn it into a sales job -vs- a bid.

In this business you need to learn how to "sell". With exception of government contracts, very few deals are cut and dry, low bidder gets the work. There is always some negotiation behind the scenes.

Lastly, quit sending emails and texts in these instances. Go see the guy face to face or do a phone call minimum. If it's business you want, build a relationship with the contractor.

Pricing work and quoting jobs costs time & money. Don't spend that time and money if you don't have pretty good odds of winning the work.
 
#25 ·
Well said. OP, do you really expect to get work from people if you just sit & wait on them? If you show your face maybe they will think your interested instead of just truckassing. Don’t know how to explain a set or nuts, but get some balls on & play the game



Mike
 
#26 ·
Joeyther said:
Hi,

I'm new to the forum and a new electrical contractor. I have a GC who keeps sending me plan sets and asks for bids. I try my best to provide extremely detailed quotes in a short time. He was impressed when he saw my first estimate. Here is the problem. I've just spent 4 days on a really complicated estimate for a high-end residential home which amounted to nearly $150,000. He thanked me and said he forwarded it to the client. This was my 6th estimate for him. He has just sent me 2 more plan sets to bid, but he hasn't given me any work yet. I'm starting to feel being taken advantage of. Communication is almost nonexistent besides emails. I feel like he's using my outstanding quality quotes and uses another contractor. I don't mind giving estimates, but there is a limit before I get the urge to charge for my time. I have other GCs I work with.

Should I stop bidding for him and move on from this GC? What do you think?

Thanks
Click to expand...
The simple answer is to ask the builder what's going on and what the winning bid was. It could be that he has a pet sub that's giving him great prices, or it could be that you're over thinking the process and your numbers are off. Only one guy can give you the answers you need, that's the fellow you need to chat with. My only advice there is don't walk in thinking you have the biggest swinging dick in the county, and don't get defensive. Make it friendly, and make it easy for the fellow to answer you honestly.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
Kingcarpenter1 said:
Well said. OP, do you really expect to get work from people if you just sit & wait on them? If you show your face maybe they will think your interested instead of just truckassing. Don’t know how to explain a set or nuts, but get some balls on & play the game



Mike
Click to expand...
I don't know why most of you think I need to grow a set of nuts. I'm busy with other projects and only work 10-15 days a month. I don't chase work.
 
#29 ·
Kowboy said:
I just don't understand bidding as a business model. Racing to the bottom and having your competition set your prices doesn't make any sense to me. What if they're all going broke and don't know it?
Click to expand...
Completely different type of work than what you did.
 
#31 ·
Joeyther said:
I don't know why most of you think I need to grow a set of nuts. I'm busy with other projects and only work 10-15 days a month. I don't chase work.
Click to expand...
Kingcarpenter likes being confrontational. I don't understand the how's or why's of it, but I've dismissed every single person who's ever come on my job site with that attitude. It didn't work for me, my clients, or my employees. That said, I did have a client a few years back who thought he could come on strong, I had to back him down three different times. He ended up being very happy with the job and said I was the guy who would always do his work. I guess some fellows are just like that.
 
#32 ·
Pounder said:
Kingcarpenter likes being confrontational
Click to expand...
Not here to be butt buddies w/you or anyone from my area for that matter unlike you. Just simply stating facts. Tis what is. On Comm. my range is Oregon to the Keys coastal mainly. If I get an ITB point to point, I’ve got contacts present in any situation if I can’t show. But you wouldn’t know anything about that



Mike
 
#33 ·
Kowboy said:
I just don't understand bidding as a business model. Racing to the bottom and having your competition set your prices doesn't make any sense to me. What if they're all going broke and don't know it?
Click to expand...
The clues are in the language used. When you don’t get the job, you lost it. If you get the job, you won it. If your prices aren’t in the ball park, you aren’t competitive.

It is market competition and it drives people who like to compete.

There’s a lot of mysticism here on CT about “selling” and discussing features and benefits. I’ve met consumers that will take the high price for a kitchen or a car or a hamburger just because. But never a GC for sub work just because it comes with completely tertiary and dubious perks that weren’t required in the first place, such as cleanliness. The job will be clean before sign off or no payment will be made, regardless.

Lots of GCs seem to have advice for how subs can close more that doesn’t seem to be relevant in a business-to-business game.
 
#34 ·
Kowboy said:
I just don't understand bidding as a business model. Racing to the bottom and having your competition set your prices doesn't make any sense to me. What if they're all going broke and don't know it?
Click to expand...
You're in niche market selling a solution to a unique problem. In the market I was in I never once saw the failure you've made a business out of correcting.
I've never once sold a job. Most of the calls I received were from people who wanted me to do their job, not people looking for bids. On the majority of my work I was the only bid, and that happened exclusively through reputation.
 
#35 ·
Kingcarpenter1 said:
Not here to be butt buddies w/you or anyone from my area for that matter unlike you. Just simply stating facts. Tis what is. On Comm. my range is Oregon to the Keys coastal mainly. If I get an ITB point to point, I’ve got contacts present in any situation if I can’t show. But you wouldn’t know anything about that



Mike
Click to expand...
Like I said...
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
Pounder said:
Kingcarpenter likes being confrontational. I don't understand the how's or why's of it, but I've dismissed every single person who's ever come on my job site with that attitude. It didn't work for me, my clients, or my employees. That said, I did have a client a few years back who thought he could come on strong, I had to back him down three different times. He ended up being very happy with the job and said I was the guy who would always do his work. I guess some fellows are just like that.
Click to expand...
I avoid people like him as well. It's bad for business and causes headaches for anyone involved. You need to be pleasant person to be in high-end construction.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
Kingcarpenter1 said:
So.. it finds you. I’ve been strapping the bags many years & can’t think of 1 contractor I didn’t meet face to face, beginning midway or end of any gig. Working 15 days a month, you don’t need work



Mike
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I want and need work. I want to grow. I literally called every GCs in San Diego when I started. That was 3 months ago. I dropped my price on the first project so they can see I'm worth the money I ask for. Then they just keep calling me without an estimate just to do the work and bill them.
 
#38 ·
I will only bid a couple jobs for gc's before I just decline. 95% of my work is homeowner stuff. I don't get pricing from almost all my subs when I bid. I have a great team and know what they cost. I work in occupied homes so I can't have bull running around costing me money.

I also have no problem asking them what they figured. If I'm at 100k ballpark and they say 50k, why waste each others time. I find working for GC's T&M works best.
 
#39 ·
Kowboy said:
I just don't understand bidding as a business model. Racing to the bottom and having your competition set your prices doesn't make any sense to me. What if they're all going broke and don't know it?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about custom sink replacements- that seems highly customized, in 23 years in construction I've never seen someone just replace a sink, but then again I'm not in that business

For a custom home builder you need to know what the pricing is in your market. If the high end of the market has good subs and a 16 - 20% cost plus mark up and you want 30% you won't work, and if you do it won't be much. Never seen it

Being on TAB and NAHB boards as well as my local HBA for almost 15 years I don't know any succesful builders who don't understand their markets pricing. For builders it's not much different than subs, you have different brackets in my humble experience. Low end, mid end, semi high end/custom home, super high end luxury home builders like Allan. The top of that bracket in a small area like mine with 60-70k people is a handful of builders that are doing the 5 mil+ on automatic repeat.

At the bottom of that bracket is a lot larger pool and is obviously full of less profesional contractors as well as a few competent contractors who just don't want to mess with the selections at the upper end. I'm admittedly in the bracket below true luxury home builders, we build houses with elevators and theaters, have built a number over 8k sq ft, a few over 10k with one being over 15k sq ft - some of them have very nice appointments and fixtures/finishes - but I'll also build a 2500 sq ft 3/3 with an office and white picket fence for 750k, last year we built a guest house for 200k, have a remodel going right now under 500k. For us it's 70% 1mm - 1.5mm custom homes with kitchenaide or Thermador appliances, nice finishes but not top end, 10% smaller projects bear larger projects like the afore mentioned remodel - and 20% higher end stuff. Like that mix, we make great money on the 3/3 and 4/3.5 golf course houses, they go up quick, 7-8 months tops. Larger houses the fees are nice but take longer and more hand holding. If I was to go into only high end luxury I'd expect to hire or engage a very good decorator to handle selections coordination

All that to say I know the pricing for all the above brackets. As a builder you are going to compete against other builders, we are almost all referal except Parade of Homes, but 80% our prospects get more than one number, and we encourage them to atleast talk to a few builders. If I know whose bidding which I usually can ascertain fairly easily - I know how to sell agaisnt them. Bigger outfit that runs 20 homes with 3 guys supervising, push closely supervised construction, lower end/ mid end guy sell communication, better quality, better subs, better craftsmanship. Agaisnt a top end luxury guy the only thing I can really sell is price, they usually have selections personell, more sizzle with the steak and in general their portfolio is ONLY that type product where mine is a mix. I've won plenty from all brackets but less succesful selling against the few super custom guys. One builds customs that take 2-3 years for 10s of millions on lake Austin, out in HAB and in Fredricksburg. 40+ year old company. People hire them just to say they hired them lol

Not only do you need to know what other builders are charging but you also need to know what subs are charging in my experience.

Always keeping an ear to the ground, knowing my place in the market and planning how to take my market share
 
#40 ·
OP, I'd just go in and talk to the builder in person. As a builder I wouldn't even ask a sub to price a third project if they lost the first two without calling them and having a conversation about where I'm at, getting a tempature of where they are at, and letting them know where it stands - I'm interested in a new sub on the roster because of price or scheduling issues, but still fairly loyal to the original sub, or am actively trying to replace. I don't show subs or vendors other subs or vendors bids.

My mason estimated 4 projects before I gave him one, and he came by after he lost 3 and got feedback every time, I liked the hustle and after his first job we switched to him, 11 years ago and he's my mason now. Personally once I have a roster thats my team until I have a reason to look for a back up or replacement, I don't often bid subs out

Fwiw I lean more to Mike's demeanor than Pounders (and i like pounder and respect his demeanor), and most of my projects are over a million, have 7 - 10 projects going st anytime and I'm the sales guy in my outfit
 
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