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Why all the hate for cheapo and blows???

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#121 · (Edited)
country_huck said:
Some of the old timers would notch the 2x12 floor joists to accommodate sheeting boards and a traditional mud set floor. The mudset could be 1 1/2 thick. After demo you need to build that backup. I did a floor last year that took 2 layers of 3/4 and a layer of 1/4 cement board. After tile it was level to the original wood floor.
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Guess I've seen more situations where the floor sheeting was let into the joist. More often 1x8 and newer old homes 1/2". Seen some '30's and older homes where they notched the jiosts for the pans.

In regard to BC's dilemma; letting 3/4" between the joists and a "1/4" tile substrate may present a solution. Mo work and Mo money but a solution?

Fresh in my mind, wrapping up a bathroom that required that methodology and more :censored: :clap:
 

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#122 ·
ohiohomedoctor said:
Yes. This may need its own thread. There is a very good one somewhere already.

I space the 3/4" ply 1/8 during installation. The plywood gets wood glued to the existing sub floor much like you'd do with contact cement. Then tape the seams with fiberfuse set in aqua d. 4-5 coats of aqua d and you have a bullet proof subfloor which meets all deflection requirements. Can't do that with cement board..
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This is just me asking cause I'm trying to learn. Say that your joists were sized to handle the deflection properly, and you had 3/4" T&G subfloor, why not put ditra over top of it? My understanding is that would meet the deflection requirement correct?

I guess I'm just trying to understand the reason in doing it this way with the plywood. Is it cost, finish floor height, quality of work?
 
#123 ·
While the book may say this is exceptible and clearly for the sake of argument because in this case the joists were not appropriate, I'm not a ditra believer. Just now way I'm going to agree that an 1/8" of plastic is a suitable replacement for a 3/4 sheet of plywood.
 
#127 ·
Xtrememtnbiker said:
Having never installed a natural stone floor, would an approach like this be necessary to achieve proper deflection for natural stone?
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There are tons of approaches which would work. This is the only one I'm aware of which will stiffen an already maxed joist system..

In this case we removed cement board and tile. In the end I calculated we decreased the amount of weight on the floor.
 
#128 ·
Xtrememtnbiker said:
This is just me asking cause I'm trying to learn. Say that your joists were sized to handle the deflection properly, and you had 3/4" T&G subfloor, why not put ditra over top of it? My understanding is that would meet the deflection requirement correct? I guess I'm just trying to understand the reason in doing it this way with the plywood. Is it cost, finish floor height, quality of work?
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The TCNA says that you have to have a min. 1 1/8" of plywood to tile to if your tiling directly to plywood.

Ditra, aqua d, noble, redguard, hydro ban, and cement board do not add strength the flooring assembly.
 
#129 ·
country_huck said:
The TCNA says that you have to have a min. 1 1/8" of plywood to tile to if your tiling directly to plywood.

Ditra, aqua d, noble, redguard, hydro ban, and cement board do not add strength the flooring assembly.
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1 1/8" of what kind of plywood? On what joist span? On what joist size?

Deflection rating is more important than an arbitrary number.
 
#130 ·
TNTSERVICES said:
1 1/8" of what kind of plywood? On what joist span? On what joist size? Deflection rating is more important than an arbitrary number.
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The guideline I was referring to iOS the minimum required for tiling directly to plywood.

Obvisouly you will need to check deflection and add wood, joists, or blocking as needed to meet the deflection ratio for the tile your working with.
 
#131 ·
TNTSERVICES said:
1 1/8" of what kind of plywood? On what joist span? On what joist size?

Deflection rating is more important than an arbitrary number.
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If I build it its 1 1/8 CDX TNG on 2' centers, web trusses or properly speced joists. 40 lbs dead and 10 live live load, I rate for 60. Liquid Nails and 3" screws, 6" on the edges and 8" in the field. That SOB will not deflect or squeak, ever. :thumbsup:

Considering Advantech quiet floor, more for CDX quality issues than quiet, insulation between the first and second floor take care of that.
 
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#132 ·
TNTSERVICES said:
Why would you add an additional 1/2" durarock on the floor after adding over an inch of subfloor?
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Either 1/4" or 1/2" I add depending on the +/- thickness of the original mud bed that was removed to bring it back up to original height (give or take)

Example- adding 3/4" ply and 1/2" durarock (sometimes only 1/4" durarock )on top of the original 1/2" subfloor (which is under the mud bed) brings it up to the original thickness of the mud bed.
 
#133 ·
BCConstruction said:
I know how that goes. I had same issue with lowes. I pay the card completely of before each payment is due. Well for some reason I can't do online payments. They said there's an issue with my bank which won't allow it so I have to goto the store to pay it. No big deal seeings there's 4 within 15mins but the issue comes when the only checkout you can pay at is the customer service desk. Each and every time I go to pay its the only checkout open and has about 10 people checking out and on the back side if that desk there's the returns desk. Well there also always a line of people there to. There's only one person who runs this whole desk and she directs calls too so in sure everyone knows how this goes. Normally about a 30-40min wait each time to pay the card down. One time I said **** it as I was not wasting anymore time. Ended up with a late charge and interest being charge on the amount owed even though it only went over by 1 day. I blew my top but they wouldn't do anything. Said I had to call the card provider and they said basically tuff luck.

You wouldn't believe the issues I have had with kitchens from them either. Let me keep this short. Every job wrong cabinets ordered, wrong handles ordered, not enough cabinets ordered, damaged cabinets and then customers being called liars even though I make sure I'm there and take note of everything they say and I get called a liar too, being charged delivery charges for stuff they forget to order. Items that are missing take about 3months on avg to turn up. Went just the other day to put the missing handles pulls and doors into a kitchen I finished up about 2 months ago. That customer was extremely pissed of but when I said try lowes as it was the only local place to them with kitchens I didn't know this store was vastly worse than my local stores. I felt bad and threw in some freebies but lowes wouldn't do nothing.

I'm now at that point where if they mention lowes I tell them sorry I can't do the work using there products. It just cost me way too much time, money and headaches. The pro/contractor desks also have given the worst hack advice to "contractors" in this area too.
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ummm..they give you a nice preprinted envelop and pay stub to send in..all you have to do is write the check and put a stamp on it? or do you not know how to do that?

as for being called a liar? doubt that.
 
#134 ·
Jaws said:
If I build it its 1 1/8 CDX TNG on 2' centers, web trusses or properly speced joists. 40 lbs dead and 10 live live load, I rate for 60. Liquid Nails and 3" screws, 6" on the edges and 8" in the field. That SOB will not deflect or squeak, ever. :thumbsup:

Considering Advantech quiet floor, more for CDX quality issues than quiet, insulation between the first and second floor take care of that.
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Great, but I am not talking about building anything. What I am talking about is using an arbitrary number instead of calculating your conditions to get proper deflection rating.

I rarely have to build a subfloor up that much to meet deflection rating for my floors.
 
#135 ·
TNTSERVICES said:
Great, but I am not talking about building anything. What I am talking about is using an arbitrary number instead of calculating your conditions to get proper deflection rating.

I rarely have to build a subfloor up that much to meet deflection rating for my floors.
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:thumbsup:
 
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#137 ·
BCConstruction said:
The last thing was a home theater wall plate joby with a few parts in the box. went in there the next week as they had none left and shelf was full and grabbed one without checking what was inside it and got to the job and as i emptied the stuff out i then noticed i bought the same one again.

The one before that was a set of fatmax saw horses. returned them as they had a couple of the clips broken and didnt notcie until i was about to open them up. I went and grabbed some bits and pieces then on the way out i grabbed another set of horses and got to the job and notcied they were the ones i just returned. SOB's put everything thats faulty back out on display hoping someone with buy it and make do.

Since then i see them all the time putting stuff back on the shelf that shouldnt be.

I double check everything now and open the boxes or packs up to be sure. had one manager tell me if i do that i have to buy it. Just ignored him and kept tearing into packs trying to find some that were complete.

I was doing a 10k sqft office build not silly long ago. I rejected a truck load of material so they come back and got it to swap it out. i marked the ends with UV marker as i knew better than to trust they wouldnt sneak me the stuff back i just gave me. 5hrs later they return and the driver said he hand piced this from 3 different stores him self. got me black light out and light the ends up and everysingle one he returned was the ones i rejected. They just put straps round them to pull them flat on pallets. I flipped out and told that driver not to show his face on my sites again. The warehouse manager ended up having to bring them down in multiple drops hanging out the back of his half ton.
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Sounds like Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day"
 
#138 ·
I like the fact that I can shop till 10pm,,,and Sundays. I find in my HD most sales have great experience in the trades. Some are former trades people. I rather go to the big box stores then the local lumber yard. And I have been doing this well over 30 years.
 
#139 ·
F*** hd !!!! f*** F****f***** !!!!! G(*&D#(*(T!!! f(*****(*** waste of time no nothings!!!!!!!!!!
can't even get a tape measure. J(***(()( st! sticker said 12.95, it rang up as 29.95. WTF?????

I don't have time for BS. My main tape just wore out, and my backup tape blew in 1/2. Just bad luck I guess, both were old.

I drove down to my local lumber yard and got one from there - long drive but they had what I wanted, in and out under 5 mins.

You'd think that they could put the correct sticker on the peg. Nope, and they wouldn't honor the price. I don't have time to argue, I just left. They really don't get it, do the job right the first time, then customers know what the correct prices are! and if you screw it up, say sorry dude take it for 12.95. I guess those days are gone. It'd sure be good PR, but I think that this outfit doesn't give a good g*(****mn about that.

Back to work!!
 
#140 ·
Xtrememtnbiker said:
I dare say it depends on which store you deal with. There are about 5 of each within 25 min of my house. A great friend who has been in the business for a long time works at one of the lowes. He has fixed issues for us before the same way a supplier would.
Same thing with a Home Depot, guy who I have known since I was 5 (yeah, I'm young... Lol) is a manager there.
A different HD has a lady who knows her stuff. Like no joke, I will walk across the store to ask her anything, cause she knows the whole entire store. She has never not known where something was.
A different lowes is who we deal with for cabinets. The guy is awesome. We have his cell, you can call him at night and when he is off, etc.

So yeah, take away those 4 people and they would suck I guess... But I haven't had a terrible experience yet.

Although I swear if they say "sorry, this isn't on your card" one more time... Lol
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My experience is just the same.... I don't have any lumber yards near me, no electrical nor plumbing. The ones I've had to use for a specialty item, have been OK I guess, but nothing special.

Generally, you have to know the store. My local store, and a few of the employees are good excellent resources. They call me by name and I've really never had any trouble with a product return... they do the extra's... drop a new bunk down for me to cull if necessary...etc

Now I will say out in Cali at my daughters, I've used some specialty trade shops... electrical and flooring. The electric supply was useless with some local type questions I had, selection was poor. The flooring store was OK.

Yes... There are alot of DIY at HD, but alot of contractors too.
I'm glad they are around.....

I will say that down in Dana Point at my son's, the local Gahnahl is terrific, well stocked, and knowledgeable.... and not too pricey...plus they are the closest.

I'm glad they are around also.
 
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CO762
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