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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We had a visit from Zern at our job site awhile back, as you may or maynot know, Zern bought out Wisbo and RTI, they showed us the new crimp tool and rings that they will start using after the turn of the year, yep you got it, that crimper that you use now will not work on the new rings.

The new ring, if you have not seen it yet, it a bit wider and will have a lip on the end, this allowing the ring to stay stationary, making it easier the set the ring at correct placement.

The tool, will crimp 1/2" to 1", has a bulkier head but crimping rings wil be shorter yet smoother move.

I had the chance to crimp a 1" ring and there is a big difference and alot easier.

Bad news is, that old crimper will be a dino, you will need the need crimper, damit, just when you spend the money on one tool they cahnge the system. So if your out looking to buy a new crimp tool, hold off or you will get stuck having to buy the new tool just shortly there after.

Now we was smart, at the time they showed us the new system, and told them we were not happy about the change in the tools, we told them we felt we should not have to buy the new tool since some of us had just got dishing out $125 for the old style crimper, the deal was made, they will give each of us a new tool at no cost. Now thats sweet. :thumbsup:

Thats is a heads up.
 

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Been useing compression fitting with pex al pex just dont see the logic in buying crimp fitting and tools for systems that change yearly of course radient sys. dont utilize alot of fittings.
I dont know about you guys but I'd love to see an industry standard for pex fittings just like npt for copper. What the hell this stuff has been in europe for ever. Surly they can develop a crimp that will allow guys to master a technique and use it universally. Untill then I'm sticking to my openend wrench I even splurged on a stubby for those tight places under $4.00 at sears.
 

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Ron, I just bought the old style crimper, and they told me that it was getting replaced soon, but I needed to get this job going, so I sucked it up and bought it. What are my chances Zurn will swap crimpers with me? My supply house laughed when I said I would be back next month to sell them a used crimper. Did you hear that it was ratcheting? I seem to remember hearing that. And for what it's worth, I have used Nibco's crimp rings (copper) and the connection just feels less secure. The Zurn felt much stronger.

For those of you who are not all that sold on pex.......

I relocated the piping for a water heater from inside to outside. In copper, this would have taken me at least 2 hours with all the turns and what not. In pex, it took me 15 minutes. After I finished up I just laughed. I spent 400 getting into it, between fittings, SS crimp rings, fittings, crimper, and 120 ft of pipe. While I have enough extra fittings to do 3 more of this kind of job, I saved SO much compared to copper.

After I got water back on, I was a bit scared that the connections would burst. I pulled on them, wiggled them, slapped them and no leaks!
So, I am officially sold on PEX, and copper can KMA
 

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DGR,IABD
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I pity the guys that spent a grand or more on the battery operated cordless crimpers. Hopefully, they can just buy a new head for their existing crimper instead of spending another 1,000 bucks. I know some plumbers have several versions of the old crimper; right angle and low profile versions for obstruction crimping. Not to mention the contractors that have one or two on each van... sheesh.. that's a small fortune's worth of crimpers to replace.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ron, I just bought the old style crimper, and they told me that it was getting replaced soon, but I needed to get this job going, so I sucked it up and bought it. What are my chances Zurn will swap crimpers with me? My supply house laughed when I said I would be back next month to sell them a used crimper. Did you hear that it was ratcheting? I seem to remember hearing that. And for what it's worth, I have used Nibco's crimp rings (copper) and the connection just feels less secure. The Zurn felt much stronger.
Yea supply house will not swap unless a deal is made with zern and if zern will authorize it, IMO they should allow swaping of the old and new crimp tool.

Don't know what the chances are, you will have to talk to zurn directly, the crimper is like the old style, squeeze, if that is what you mean by racheting?

They need to set a standard for rings and crimper and stop changing the style.

Each plumber and apprentice in our shop will get a free crimper when they switch, I heard the new crimper will run about $150.
 

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"the crimper is like the old style, squeeze, if that is what you mean by racheting?"


no, I ment like a PVC cutter style. I was told plumbers were complaining of the size and leverage needed to make proper crimp connections. So the "new" design was about half the size and that it, or another model was going to be racheting.
And why are they changing designs? Sure the crimper I have is a bit large but it worked just fine for me. Is there some design flaw that needs addressing, and that's why they are changing, or did the sales of crimpers suddendly decline?
 

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Ron, I just bought the old style crimper, and they told me that it was getting replaced soon, but I needed to get this job going, so I sucked it up and bought it. What are my chances Zurn will swap crimpers with me? My supply house laughed when I said I would be back next month to sell them a used crimper. Did you hear that it was ratcheting? I seem to remember hearing that. And for what it's worth, I have used Nibco's crimp rings (copper) and the connection just feels less secure. The Zurn felt much stronger.

For those of you who are not all that sold on pex.......

I relocated the piping for a water heater from inside to outside. In copper, this would have taken me at least 2 hours with all the turns and what not. In pex, it took me 15 minutes. After I finished up I just laughed. I spent 400 getting into it, between fittings, SS crimp rings, fittings, crimper, and 120 ft of pipe. While I have enough extra fittings to do 3 more of this kind of job, I saved SO much compared to copper.

After I got water back on, I was a bit scared that the connections would burst. I pulled on them, wiggled them, slapped them and no leaks!
So, I am officially sold on PEX, and copper can KMA

View attachment 3763
I'm not sold on pex yet , I've seen a few jobs where its been used its just that their taking plumb out of plumbing, plumb ,stright and level. another one is that my supplie house doesn't stock no hub adapters C.I to P.V.C they say just to use a fernco on it or just a no hub band . However yours doesn't look that bad ..
 

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Ron, That is exactly the one I have.

However other than the racheting feature, I know nothing about the new one. Sounds like that was a rumor.
 

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I'm not sold on pex yet , I've seen a few jobs where its been used its just that their taking plumb out of plumbing, plumb ,stright and level. another one is that my supplie house doesn't stock no hub adapters C.I to P.V.C they say just to use a fernco on it or just a no hub band . However yours doesn't look that bad ..

This was probably the most out of aligned one I have ever done. I was not pleased with it, but this unit is almost completely covered by the trees.

I get what your saying about the, taking the plumb out of plumbing.
And at the same time, I don't bust my ass everyday because I love the work. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy most parts of it, but I'm in it for the money. I have a wife a 2 kids and they are damn exspensive. I usually don't get outbid on jobs, I offer a fair price for a quality job. With pex, I can easily for see my(our) job getting easier. Pex, is cheaper than copper, at lease where I am. If I bid a job, and the copper is X amount, and PEX is 30-50% cheaper, I simply pass that difference on to the bid. So for all the anti pex bids that I compete against, I'll clearly win, in that respect. My decision to go pex is about dollars and cents. Time and money are equal to me, so if there are new advances that are listed and approved I'm all for it. Remember, 15 minutes to do in Pex, what would have taken me 2 hrs in copper. For me, it just makes no sense not to. And at the same time, I am new to pex so I still don't know what I am talking about completely. I'll give it a few months and look at the numbers, but I am sure it's far more cost effective to go plastic.

Maybe Ron can add a little to this. When I was given the whole run through, I was complaining about the ID of 1" and 3/4". It looked like everything was a size down. Meaning, 1" fittings looked like 3/4" & 3/4" looked like 1/2". Now I'm not sure if I was just getting the sales pitch, but the guy was telling me that there is less friction for the water to pass through the pipe compared to copper, so the size could be reduced with the same volume to pass. I gave him one of those "come on" faces, but I now know that all the different versions are about the same ID. Is that accurate?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
There is no real noticable difference in the flow of water that I've seen, it is all sized the same way when caculating the runs, comments on is the flow less restricted in pex then in copper, I really can't answer that, sure there will be more turbulance passing through the pex fitting then there will passing though copper fitting, but like I say, I have seen no change in water flow at the fixtures.

Keep in mind that when I was talking with the zurn rep I asked about max bend radius of the pipe, I was told max radius is 5" on 1/2", that pretty tight, we turn 1/2" into walls and out of walls with ease, so that in mind means fewer fitting needed, we don't use many 1/2" 90's because of this. So what ever the math is, you will use more 1/2" 90's running copper then with pex, so maybe this is why I don't see a difference in flow.
 

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This was probably the most out of aligned one I have ever done. I was not pleased with it, but this unit is almost completely covered by the trees.

I get what your saying about the, taking the plumb out of plumbing.
And at the same time, I don't bust my ass everyday because I love the work. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy most parts of it, but I'm in it for the money. I have a wife a 2 kids and they are damn exspensive. I usually don't get outbid on jobs, I offer a fair price for a quality job. With pex, I can easily for see my(our) job getting easier. Pex, is cheaper than copper, at lease where I am. If I bid a job, and the copper is X amount, and PEX is 30-50% cheaper, I simply pass that difference on to the bid. So for all the anti pex bids that I compete against, I'll clearly win, in that respect. My decision to go pex is about dollars and cents. Time and money are equal to me, so if there are new advances that are listed and approved I'm all for it. Remember, 15 minutes to do in Pex, what would have taken me 2 hrs in copper. For me, it just makes no sense not to. And at the same time, I am new to pex so I still don't know what I am talking about completely. I'll give it a few months and look at the numbers, but I am sure it's far more cost effective to go plastic.

Maybe Ron can add a little to this. When I was given the whole run through, I was complaining about the ID of 1" and 3/4". It looked like everything was a size down. Meaning, 1" fittings looked like 3/4" & 3/4" looked like 1/2". Now I'm not sure if I was just getting the sales pitch, but the guy was telling me that there is less friction for the water to pass through the pipe compared to copper, so the size could be reduced with the same volume to pass. I gave him one of those "come on" faces, but I now know that all the different versions are about the same ID. Is that accurate?

James you mention the sizing of the pex I agree with you on that , I think I would have to go up 1 size on the pipe and stub it out the normal size just to make sure the volume was there , But i'm willing to try it , I guess the up front cost is what gets you i.e. tools . Do you do your manifolds the same as copper or can you buy them prefabed , I can see where that can save you time .
 

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JamesNLA... I thought that PEX was not at all UV resistant? I know that the plumbers in my area cover their underslab PEX stub ups with tarps and such until the house is under roof because of this. I see that your picture there is an outdoor installation. Were you using a brand that is UV resistant?
 

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So the rings and the tool are changing, but how about the fittings? If the fittings all stay the same, maybe I'll just buy several thousand rings for now and put off changing the tool till later. I'm NOT going back to Cu!
 

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JamesNLA... I thought that PEX was not at all UV resistant? I know that the plumbers in my area cover their underslab PEX stub ups with tarps and such until the house is under roof because of this. I see that your picture there is an outdoor installation. Were you using a brand that is UV resistant?
Not that I know of, at least I didn't see anything that stated UV protection on the printing on the pipe.

I know this might sound a bit odd, and well it kinda is. As a pilot (single engine small aircraft) I learned check lists and proceedure. To this day I still preflight - run up - all the way down to locking the plane back up with checklists. Point is, I have my own internal checklist on these heaters. The very last thing I do, well, just before I give my bill is insulate the hot water line with either foam or rubber based insulation.
What you speak of is correct, mostly. PEX piping cannot be exposed to direct sunlight for more than 60 days. When I took this pic, I was done on the outside, but not the inside. Both lines are completely covered!


<edit>:

I will be adding on a pipe cover that covers all the piping/connections. It will be affixed to the heater and wall. I did run this by my inspector when he signed off on my new gas line, he really didn't seem to care a whole lot, but said that would be fine with him
 

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"Nice job. Maybe the next one will be plumb?"

Hahaha....just for that I might move that damn thing over the 1/2" I need to be plumb. There are 4 anchors on the top and another 4 on the bottom....swiss cheese or plumb....hhmmm

I have one more to do on this house tomorrow, I'll see what I can do, but it's going in a bear of a spot so no promisse:001_unsure:
 

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"Do you do your manifolds the same as copper or can you buy them prefabed , I can see where that can save you time ."

Well since this was my basically first time I have used a decent amount of pex I can't say. The design for pex can go either way, mani or standard trunk with branches. Out here, we don't really have basements. Utility rooms are common in multi-million dollar properties. Commercial is more to what SnowDog posted up in the pictures area. If I was designing a new build right now, I would probably go mani. And yes you buy them prefabbed. Selectable valve count and pipe size. The mani for PEX is made out of copper...kinda thought that was funny.
 
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