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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HI Folks

I would appreciate if I can get some WSIB info's .
I am a sole proprietor doing mainly security installations ,access control systems , integration of electronic door control systems,closed circuit TV
computer wiring and cabling, intercommunication systems. All low voltage stuff.

So I am trying to find out if I am paying correctly and secondly WHO has to pay WSIB,

Example scenario A : Own customer private house
I install one intercom unit my labour rate is $100 so I have to pay my percentage of this for WSIB correct !?


Scenario B: I do have a contract job for a big security company ,
I work 1 month at this job site $4000 my labour rate that I charge the big security company , this big company has to pay for my WSIB correct ?


And the last Question :

What are clearance certificates good for ?

I appreciate every input !
THanks
Mark
 

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HI Folks

I would appreciate if I can get some WSIB info's .
I am a sole proprietor doing mainly security installations ,access control systems , integration of electronic door control systems,closed circuit TV
computer wiring and cabling, intercommunication systems. All low voltage stuff.

So I am trying to find out if I am paying correctly and secondly WHO has to pay WSIB,

Example scenario A : Own customer private house
I install one intercom unit my labour rate is $100 so I have to pay my percentage of this for WSIB correct !?

Scenario B: I do have a contract job for a big security company ,
I work 1 month at this job site $4000 my labour rate that I charge the big security company , this big company has to pay for my WSIB correct ?

And the last Question :

What are clearance certificates good for ?

I appreciate every input !
THanks
Mark
Where are you located?
 

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If you do work for any contractor, you have to provide a certificate of clearance to even start the job under the new rules. A cert. of clearance means you are in good standing with wsib and your account is payed up to date, Since the new rules, even company owners have to pay into wsib except under certain circumstances . From what I understand, if you work directly for the home owner, you are exempt in that circumstance. I believe if you are incorporated you can exempt one owner provided they do not operate tools on the job. They are permitted to visit the jobs for inspection. I am assuming that you don't have a wsib account. With the new rules I don't believe a contractor can hire you. Prior to this, the owner of a company was allowed to exempt themselves from wsib. Most owners bought private insurance at a lower rate for themselves but still had to have wsib on all employees. The problem was everyone was declaring their employees as sub contract employees and not paying into wsib. This left a shortfall that all us legitimate contractors had to pay for. These new rules have cost all legitimate business owners who played by the rules more money. I hope it gets rid of the guys who didn't play by the rules and could undercut everyone because they had less overhead. Not 100 percent sure but if I wanted to hire you and you didn't have an account, I would have to run you through as an employee and pay your wsib. These new rules are very complicated. Prior to the new rules, they wouldn't give you an account unless you had employees. I think they must have had to change the rules on that one, as even business owners have to have wsib on themselves now. Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Ok thanks for the discussions, but I still have no decent answer yet in regards to my questions.

To answer some questions : no I am not incorporated > I wrote sole proprietor !

This industry http://www.wsib.on.ca/en/community/WSIB/ECMDetail?vgnextoid=124cfcea9bfc7210VgnVCM100000449c710aRCRD
did not required any WSIB coverage previously and I had some at a point on a voluntary base until it got to expensive and privat coverage was the way to go,
which I switched to private with Penn-corp, than I got [email protected]!# by this new law.
I registered again (mandatory) and registered with WSIB Eservice to find out that I can not print any clearance certificates.A Certificate is now requested from on of the Company's I work for as you mentioned and new guidelines fall slowly into place.
BUT here is what goes back to my initial questions:
IF this big company has to pay for MY WSIB , why do they need a clearance certificate that I HAVE paid my WSIB contributions for the jobs that I performed ?
Would it make sense to be the other way around ? That they have to prove that they have paid into WSIB when ever I worked for them ?
 

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Previously if I didn't get a cert. of clearance from any subtrade I used, I had to pay the wsib on what I payed them. As far as I know now they say that one is reqd before you start the job. I have to provide them to generals that I do work for as well. I thought with the new rules they would give all these small business a wsib number so they could provide a cert. as reqd I thought the whole idea was to get all the small contractors who were not paying in wsib. How are you supposed to get a job and pay wsib if they wont give you a number. For a small single operator it means a bunch more bookwork to keep track of, and remittances of the wsib at regular intervals. Dealing with the govt is a pain, best left to the professionals if you can afford it. Most small operators cant afford an accountant, tax specialist ect. Don't know if this answers your question, I think you have to get a number and clearance in order to work for contractors.
 

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I just looked up the link you provided. It says independent operators who have no employees are reqd to have a wsib number. You would be classed as an independent operator.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah I understand , but after the change that it became mandatory for all, the person who hires you has to pay the tab is my understanding, WSIB does not tell you straight on their website because the are trying to double dip.
I do have a WSIB number currently under category 4261-000 : Electrical Work
which is wrong should be 7791-001 and I contact WSIB twice about that and the fact that I can not print out a clearance certificate.

MIght have to take half day off to walk into an office and get some clear answer's on all this ****.
thanks
 

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Tall Moose
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Talk to an accountant. My accountant dealt with all that WSIB crap. I wouldn't trust an answer from the WSIB themselves, since they are the ones after your money. It's not in their best interest for you to pay less...
 

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I'm a Mac
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I go thru this regularly, calling WSIB will give you limited answers.

When a sub contractor submits an invoice to me, I go online and get a clearance certificate. If he is not registered or if a clearance certificate is not available, I notify him immediately, and give him 24 hours to get himself validated. If the sub does not get it done, I deduct 10% from his invoice! as I am responsible to pay it.

My rate is 9.1%, that's one of the higher rates! chances are the sub will get a lower rate! my rate is based on my core business! structural form work. And if the sub bills me for materials and labour, well he's paying WSIB of 10% on materials too, so it's in his best interest to get himself registered, pay his own WSIB and do it right.

Everyone bitches about it being unfair, it's the law, you want a level playing field, this is part of the levelling, everyone pays it. It's the same as taxes, pay your fair share, like the rest of us do.
 

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And in plain text as the title of the thread says

If you are on the project performing any work, you need to have a valid WSIB account, with the exception of doing a job by yourself for Mrs. Homeowner. Not sure how well you business will grow doing jobs by yourself for one homeowner at a time without any employees.

In our company, my wife is exempt, she is never on the job site, I am management who visits the job to observe, but never touch a tool, my rate is peanuts, less then $20/mth, all employees are full rate coverage, 9.1%.

If you work on the site, even if you own the company, you are paying full rate. These are the new rules that came out a little over a year ago
 

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It goes by quarter, so if for a period of 4 months you never do any work for any business, only homeowners you don't have to pay WSIB. The second you do work for anyone other than a homeowner in that quarter you have to pay for the entire quarter.

Under the new mandatory construction rules you are 4261-000 unless you NEVER physically run any wires.
 

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I'm a Mac
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I think you better look into that, you either work for homeowners on your own and don't pay or your registered to allow you to work on any job and pay regardless if it's a homeowner individually or anyone else.

Reporting can be monthly, quarterly or annually, WSIB will dictate to you your reporting frequency
 

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I think you better look into that, you either work for homeowners on your own and don't pay or your registered to allow you to work on any job and pay regardless if it's a homeowner individually or anyone else.

Reporting can be monthly, quarterly or annually, WSIB will dictate to you your reporting frequency
I'm referring to the more recent mandatory coverage in construction that was implemented a little over a year ago. If you work ONLY for homeowners in a quarter you can report 0. Sadly that doesn't apply to me every.

I went to the seminar and called WSIB about this...we pay the same as Electricians and there is nothing we can do about it.
 

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To answer your questions:

Example scenario A : Own customer private house
I install one intercom unit my labour rate is $100 so I have to pay my percentage of this for WSIB correct !?
It's not mandatory if you are the owner operator and you wish to forgo coverage and you only work direct for homeowners in that quarter reporting period.

Scenario B: I do have a contract job for a big security company ,
I work 1 month at this job site $4000 my labour rate that I charge the big security company , this big company has to pay for my WSIB correct ?
No, typically they will ask you to provide a clearance certificate and you pay it.

What are clearance certificates good for ?
It proves you are in good standing with WSIB and your account is up to date. You have to provide a clearance cert. for subcontract work and some homeowners want to see it.
 

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Previously if I didn't get a cert. of clearance from any subtrade I used, I had to pay the wsib on what I payed them. As far as I know now they say that one is reqd before you start the job. I have to provide them to generals that I do work for as well. I thought with the new rules they would give all these small business a wsib number so they could provide a cert. as reqd I thought the whole idea was to get all the small contractors who were not paying in wsib. How are you supposed to get a job and pay wsib if they wont give you a number. For a small single operator it means a bunch more bookwork to keep track of, and remittances of the wsib at regular intervals. Dealing with the govt is a pain, best left to the professionals if you can afford it. Most small operators cant afford an accountant, tax specialist ect. Don't know if this answers your question, I think you have to get a number and clearance in order to work for contractors.
WSIB is quite possibly the easiest amount to calculate, report and pay, add up your labour and punch it in. It calculates your total, you click pay, you can pay online in seconds.
 

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There is no such thing as an easy govt department to deal with. In Canada, we have such diverse ethnic backgrounds that getting someone who speaks proper firkin English can be a problem when you phone them. I have seen my accountant hang up the phone four or five times until she gets someone who she can properly communicate with. Hang up and call right back, the calls are answered in sequence so you generally always get a different person. My accountant doubles as my business advisor and coordinator. She deals with all the govt accounts for our business. When a normal person calls the govt, they always assume you are wrong and they are right. When a professional calls they pay attention and look into what the problem is.
 

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There is no such thing as an easy govt department to deal with. In Canada, we have such diverse ethnic backgrounds that getting someone who speaks proper firkin English can be a problem when you phone them. I have seen my accountant hang up the phone four or five times until she gets someone who she can properly communicate with. Hang up and call right back, the calls are answered in sequence so you generally always get a different person. My accountant doubles as my business advisor and coordinator. She deals with all the govt accounts for our business. When a normal person calls the govt, they always assume you are wrong and they are right. When a professional calls they pay attention and look into what the problem is.
What have you had a problem with? WSIB and CRA are very easy to deal with.
 

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You must be kidding. They are a nightmare at the best of times. They make mistakes on our accounts all the time. If it wasn't for our accountant setting them straight, we would be wasting a lot of our valuable time dealing with them. As it stands we have to pay for time spent by our accountant. wsib is by far the worst. If you have never had any problems with any of them, you better buy a lottery ticket. I have been in business for close to 30 years and have had many issues over the years.
 

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Tall Moose
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I've never had a problem with CRA...WSIB though, they were not exactly straightforward to deal with last year. Had a few specific questions which I couldn't get a straight answer on. My accountant got an answer from them though, so w/e.
 

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You must be kidding. They are a nightmare at the best of times. They make mistakes on our accounts all the time. If it wasn't for our accountant setting them straight, we would be wasting a lot of our valuable time dealing with them. As it stands we have to pay for time spent by our accountant. wsib is by far the worst. If you have never had any problems with any of them, you better buy a lottery ticket. I have been in business for close to 30 years and have had many issues over the years.
Do you file late and have them automatically overcalculate your amount owed?

Guess I'm just lucky.
 
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