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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
so as it goes.. i live in mn, prices are **** for labor. we have a handful of companies undercutting everyone paying there labor probably .08 or less for tape an .08 for hang..

i really only subcontract and the 'fair' wage i guess is .12 - .15 for labor, no extras what so ever.. im sure non of you are stranger to this if you sub work. basically companies hire illegals through the loop hole of nievtay i.e. hireing a legal sub who then deals his work to illegal laborors for cheap.. thus washing the hands of the main contractor of legal issues.

i have been collecting opinions from other subs in different fields.. im going to create a petition to forward to my congressman..

anyway im writing in hopes to get some piece of mind, even though nothing will happen im sure..

here is what i wrote so far, any help/corrections to the problem and solution to the problem would be great..

""
To whom this may concern.

As a drywall sub contractor wages are seeing all time lows. larger drywall contractors and builders are collectively maximizing there profit margins by lowering labor wages below market rates seen in the early 90s.

we are givin the excuse 'its because of the economy' all to often which is ridiculous.. the real issue is with drywall contractors bulk bidding jobs by under cutting other contractors significantly.. they way they are doing this is by hiring illegal immigrants through a loop hole of sorts..

basically larger contractors hire a legal sub contractor who then dole out the work to illegal laborors at low rates so they can profit off there backs.. that way they make tiny profits in bulk because they are stealing the work from other companies. this way the larger contractor washes their hands of any legal issues with hiring undocumented workers even though they know they are.

this has been going on now forever. but now more so then ever has it really effected the tax paying sub contractors with living expenses in this state.. this issue needs to be dealt with once and for all. i have collected opinions from many contractors in different fields who are dealing with the same issues.. i am starting a petition for some kind of immigration reform like the one oklahoma passed in 08..

the problem could be dealt with as easily as imposing fines to the builder/remodling company for having any undocumented worker on their job site. that way the it would domino down to the drywall/painting/mason/brick contractors thus forcing them to get rid of subcontractors that hire illegals..

all this being said i discriminate against no one.. i support fare competition.. but i can no longer compete with individuals who work for below market rates and pay zero living expenses, insurance expenses, licensing, incorp expenses etc. in this state.

i briefly summarized the best i could the way things are going and they way to deal with these issues but i can elaborate more if needed.. i would just like some kind of piece of mind that our politicians are going stop laying an egg with this issue and deal with it firmly because tradesman like me are getting raked over the coals and it has to stop.. "

im sure it sounds likes **** but i am horrible with trying to formulate my opinion on paper. it always sounds better in my head.. like i said any help would be cool.. thanks.
 

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some technicals:
there profit margins should be their profit margins
givin should be given
capitalize sentence beginnings etc.

I have worked on enough construction to see the problem and you are right in descibing it.

The remedy, I think, is control of the borders. It does as no good when someone who needs 50c a day to live can pretty much just walk in and out of the country as they please. I feel sorry for them, though; they are just trying to make a living. However, it is destroying our country. I am leary about looking to the gov't, since they will use as an excuse to give us more regulation, which is not the answer. We need borders, otherwise we are not a country.
 

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Twisted Cameron
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Write that congressman. My mom is a painting contractor in SD she was having problems with illegal labor. After digging there were only 3 agents in the entire state. And the were all on the other side of the state to boot. After several letters to John Thune, the problem was addressed. Believe it or not she said she got a response from every letter. Also she was updated, and the offenders started to get busted. This does work. dont just send one. Send one a week!
 

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"collectively" I doubt it.

employers hire employees and collect documentation called I9

the govt dictates what documents can be required.

general contractors hire subs with required documentation and require insurance and work comp

subcontrators hire employee labor also have I9 proof of employability

customer and clients dictate what prices the "market" is when they elect to grant the job to the cheapest contractor.

clients and customers hire illigitimate contractors that do not comply with the laws...not contractors.

A legitimate contractor payroll is audited yearly and his insurance companies require documentation on his subcontractors.

If a contractor does his job and collects the proper documents on subs...and the sub does his job and collects the proper documents on his employees...but the client chooses to grant contracts to undocumented, unlicensed, uninsured, unregistered workers under the table.....because nobody inforces the law...you get screwed.

So write your letter but let's get your facts straight...there is no collective other than the one called CONGRESS
 

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Twisted Cameron
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Here's how the few i know are doing it. First they get legitimate work. They have a sub they pay as a 1099 employee. He provides a copy of insurance. As well as a social security number. They will use a stolen ssn and pay out thier "employees" cash. I know this to be true because my mom caught up with the guy at the bank. She asked the teller what the name of his company was. She told her the name of the company and then also told her the guy had a different name 2 years ago. He obviously isn't paying taxes, so why would his lackeys. Its very crooked, and going on under so many peoples noses. They use a legitimate ssn so why wouldn't a w-9 come back clean. When you write a letter you don't have to explain how they do it. All you have to do is alert them that there is a serious problem. I personally know that this led to a couple raids of an offending contractor in SD. She didn't even have to name drop. Thats what a congressman is for, believe it or not, they are there to help solve problems for the public!
 

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e the last few years, I have heard countless congressmen, presidents, and all manor of "public servants" say "we need the illegals to do the work americans don't want to do"

I take exception to that, I LOVE my drywall business, and I don't want to lose it!! Just cause they wouldn't do what I do for the money(yeah right) I do it for, doesn't mean that I want to flip burgers so illegals can do the drywall.

It ain't ever gonna change till WE as a country STOP electing people that have NO CLUE as to what it takes to run a business.

Nuff ranting,, I'm gonna drink me some homebrew (can't afford the real beer anymore)
 

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Here's a little food for thought on this:
It doesn't help when the Banks want them.
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/8/19/150601.shtml

or;
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2009/jun/oakland-approves-id-cards-illegal-aliens




ILLEGAL ALIEN ID CARDS
In the continuing effort to legitimize and condone illegal immigration various interests including commercial banks, race-biased illegal alien 'rights' groups, and governmental bodies are promoting acceptance of Illegal Alien ID Cards. The 'Matricular Consular' has been heavily promoted by the Mexican government and special interest groups. Cards from numerous other countries have been initiated as well.
Identification of illegal aliens through the use of such cards would be beneficial if and only if illegal alien applicants are deported per the law. However, assuming deportation is unlikely, acceptance of such cards should be stridently opposed by patriotic Americans. The faults of the cards are many, including aiding and abetting illegal immigration, national security, and contradiction of federal law by lower levels of government.
For more information see U.S. Border Patrol: Matricula Card Worthless as ID.
 

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this same situation KILLS the market around here. The bad sub will hire all illegals as "subcontractors" and work them off of a ghost policy (about 850 bucks per year and it doesn't cover a thing) Ive had the come in for 1/3 of what I can do it for. The greedy GC's dont care and share in the blame IMO. Very few guys left around here that actually care what the work looks like.
 

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The thing that gets me is how there are some people who will stand up and call the cops on a pot smoker yet when it's about Illegals being here and working here No One calls or drops a dime:rolleyes:
Maybe this will help, a lot of the Illegals Smoke weed:whistling Hey maybe now some of the construction police will do a better job, I would say that the guys who are seeing their work drying up should watch the GC's and go to their job sites watch for Illegals to show up to work get the License Plate number off their truck or car then call ICE and give them the GC's name and company name and then tell them about the Illegals working his jobs, they will send out someone to watch and then they will raid the site. but don't forget to mention they smoke weed:laughing:
 

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Motorboatin' son of a ...
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but but but......they only want to work here and make a living to feed their family. Obama says we need to spread the wealth. You must be racist.

Did I throw enough bull**** at you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
"collectively" I doubt it.

employers hire employees and collect documentation called I9

the govt dictates what documents can be required.

general contractors hire subs with required documentation and require insurance and work comp

subcontrators hire employee labor also have I9 proof of employability

customer and clients dictate what prices the "market" is when they elect to grant the job to the cheapest contractor.

clients and customers hire illigitimate contractors that do not comply with the laws...not contractors.

A legitimate contractor payroll is audited yearly and his insurance companies require documentation on his subcontractors.

If a contractor does his job and collects the proper documents on subs...and the sub does his job and collects the proper documents on his employees...but the client chooses to grant contracts to undocumented, unlicensed, uninsured, unregistered workers under the table.....because nobody inforces the law...you get screwed.

So write your letter but let's get your facts straight...there is no collective other than the one called CONGRESS
your too text book. legally everyone is doing the ''right'' thing but the sub of the sub.. builders are hiring the cheapest drywall contractor. the cheapest drywall contractor is hiring a cheap subcontractor who then hires undocumented labor.. if, and only if the sub gets audited is when they face trouble. but that rarely happens to them..

i cant give you exact percentages but there is no doubt housing costs have gone down.. but labor has gone down significantly more, it doesn't match up.. consumers and the market are only dictating so much.. its the builders at the top that are hiring the cheapest labor so they can maintain profit margins they had 4 years ago.. and the cheap labor comes from illegal laborers.

some of the subs in my area, illegals, are making roughly $75 - $100 a day when figured with sq ft. costs... one company is bidding new homes at roughly .50 a sq including board, material and labor for hang/tape/sand/spray.. that's including contractor profit.. meaning labor is at the most getting .08 a sq.. which is really below minimum wage.. guys like me, with a mortgage and car payment would be better off working at mcdonalds.

again, legally everything sounds good on paper, and everyone should be playing by the rules.. its not happening that way.. its effecting me and many others in this business in my area..

thanks for the corrections everyone. grammatically ill fix everything, i was looking for more substance issues..
 

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until it happens to you, you dont really have a horse in this race.
Oh but it IS happening to me...I just realise that it's not just the "contractors at the top" It's EVERYONE. YOU do it when you try to get the best price on materials. YOU do it when you shop for insurance. YOU do it when you adjust your prices to make up for adjustments in your expenses. YOU do it when an employee isn't making you money and you S can him.

I just talked to a new "hotshot" GC yesterday that claimed houses in this area (Alaska) are unreasonably over priced and how his costs were so much lower than what other builders in the area are charging and how great he is doing blah blah blah.

He's bringing up subs from Utah to do all his work. He talks them into coming up and they don't stay here...they work a few weeks, go fishing and leave and take their cash back home. It doesn't matter that they take the money back to a state where the cost of living is 40% less. It doesn't matter that this GC isn't supporting the local economy by buying materials in Utah. He thinks he's doing great but reality is..he isn't doing that good. He isn't counting the investment in the heavy equipment and gravel pits he has in other venture. He isn't considering his own cut of the pie that he will get when the houses sell, as "cost" of construction.

It doesn't matter because THAT'S BUSINESS.

He will use the cheapest labor he can to get the best deal he can on every aspect of constructing his houses when there are no other jobs going on. I have no doubt that the subs he brings up aren't licensed in the state. I have no doubt that he's probably paying at least some people under the table. Aliens? maybe...maybe not...does it matter if they are aliens?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
it dose matter because its not legal competition.. if they come from other states but live in this country their rates will only very a few cents because of taxes and living expenses.. if they are here illegally, they are willing to work for more then half what we are, completely destroying our standard of living. its not business, its illegal.
 
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