[americangutter]

I was just outbid severely by a company from out of the area who runs a crew of Hispanic workers. The customer wanted me to go down on price but I said have a nice day. Here's my quandry.

I ran across a roofer this year who runs a Hispanic crew of non english speaking workers. I asked him how he gets around work comp and he said he pays one guy out of the crew and the rest of them divide the profits. This can't be legal can it? My comp is based on payroll so I would have to show every worker under my company as being on payroll? How does he and others get away with it? What if one of these workers gets injured and they arent on payroll? Is there a loophole I dont know about? Are his workers providing legal documentation? "frustrated in California" Help.....

Mike

 

[americangutter]

I realize my post sounds a bit naive and perhaps obvious. I certainly don't want to start a rant thread on illegals. My question really is for the property owner as to what REALISTIC liability exists if this contractor is running an illegal crew using the work comp payroll loophole and one of the guys gets seriously injured? The contractor is presented "what looks like" a valid social security card and drivers license. The Property Owner gets a certificate of work comp from the contractor, and everything's good to go? Then the contractor pays his "one skilled laborer" who in turn pays cash to all the other workers? Then if the worker is injured he says, oh I just hired the guy and didn't get paperwork filled out.....

Bottom line....are these laborers covered?

 

[americangutter]

update: The property owner called me back and asked that I do the job, but for the same price as my competitor. I nicely declined stating that I would not lower my standards in this instance. Man that hurts though!

 

[Kevin]

Good for you man.

 

[Hazmat]

You might kindly remind the homeowner that (here in Iowa, anyway) if the contractor subs his work (or even, worst case for his own workers) and provides no work-comp, the property owner can be held liable for med. bills for those uncovered workers, should they be smart and savvy enough to push it.

Just might have them speak to their H.O.'s insurance carrier, to be sure. Might help them understand why your prices are somewhat higher...you're playing by the rules.

 

[americangutter]

What if he presents a legit work comp certificate (which I was told he did by the property owner) but only reports one of his five workers on payroll, and one of those guys breaks his neck?? Work comp doesn't cover non-payroll employess does it? If one of these guys gets seriously injured, they'll determine right away his illegal practice.... or will they? Sheesh, no wonder the trades are so hard.

 

[Kevin]

If it isn't you, then don't worry too much about it. Concentrate on finding the next job, unless the customer is willing to pay what you charge (deserve).

 

[PipeGuy]

The property owner called me back and asked that I do the job, but for the same price as my competitor.

It's just a shame that he doesn't perceive the value, and inherent cost difference, of what you're providing (everyone employed and insured on the up and up) versus what your competitor is providing. It's more a shame that our government won't enforce the laws that can put an end to this BS. :evil:

 

[PipeGuy]

If one of these guys gets seriously injured, they'll determine right away his illegal practice.... or will they?

WC will only cover those that are employed as of the date of the accident. Believe me, the employer would only do this with illegals because they probably won't have any recourse if they get injured (though, in some jurisdictions that's beginning to change). Otherwise the employer is exposing himself to huge claims if an uninsured gets hurt.

 

[ConcreteGuy]

The problem is, just like the cheap goods we buy at the megalomart, our greed exceeds nationality. That is, if cheap labor builds my house and my household goods are bought at Walmart, it is an effective raise on my income.

I just need the threat for my job and income to force me to drink less beer and cut back on smoking. OMG! Then the gov will have to tax something else! Hmmm...how about forum traffic?

 

[PipeGuy]

The problem is, if cheap labor builds my house and my household goods are bought at Walmart, it is an effective raise on my income.

How much less do you think you paid for your house because jose illegal laid the brick veneer or through up the framing? Presuming it cost you any more, wouldn't that extra money you spent still count as an asset (in the form of a higher home value)?
How much less do your $23 D-i-c-k-i-e-s cost because they're made in China? $2? $10? $20? While we might be talking about huge money in terms of corporate profit, what does it really mean to the consumer? to the welfare of our nation? Don't wage rates tend to rise (albeit lagging) with the cost of goods and services?
You're being lazy if you think illegal labor is saving the consumer money. Illegal immigration, and the illegal labor competiton it brings, is another note in the death nell of America.