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Hi

Our company installs new vinyl sills and noses. We also replace blind stop( it what storm windows are attach to) and brick mould. We charge 315 to 275 per single depending on job size and the location on the home. It takes our guys about 1- 1.5 hours per single. Are experience with wrapping the sills they still rot because the wrap will trap moisture. Depending on the age of the home it may last longer than others.Older homes built around 1983 and older have better lumber. The newer homes let say 10 years old are built with poor quality woods. Also make sure if you use pvc sills that you also upgrade your sealant. Something that will stick to plastic. We use a commercial grade roofing sealant and adhesive. Also if you replace the brick mould you must use an adhesive to glue the brick mould to your siding or sheeting. If it is painted a dark color I have seen it expand and contract away from homes. Here in Kansas City we are constantly redoing handy man and painting companies work. Good Luck to you. Check out our site and our photo gallery.
Exactly & thank you for your input to this thread.
So much new wood is forced grown today with the help of science to keep up with the demand, therefore broader, softer grains = faster wood decay, including treated lumber if no air circulation is allowed.
All building products, one in construction needs to stay up to date with the changes, new products availible, methods, & legal liabilities to succeed & get the higher dollars we all desire.

On an exterior, what ever the need for caulking, I always use or recommend NP1 or Geo-cel, (Caulk a joint & try to cut it after it cures)
Readily availible at any roofing supply house as well as so many building supply places now carry it, (Not Homo-depot or Lowes) Sherwin Williams now has the same as NP1 just minor changes to not infringe on patents.
Backer cord is another material that is always on my truck. For maximum strength, caulk joints should only be a 2 point bond, not more tubes of caulking applied.

But in all fairness to all, for what ever, there is a market & just depends on the market one wishes to be in as well as qualified to be in.
I'm not saying doing something wrong for 20 years does not justify it being right.

I need to get together a few albums on here of jobs recently completed by others and because of the rapid turn over in homes from early 90's on, typical things that were caught covered over, then I was brought in to document & correct the problem. Today there is several Contractors getting into this line of work. It is profitable and "has" to be done the correct way. (there are exceptions when no follow up or phase inspections are required)
Most were not intent, just either lack of experience and or the way they were taught to do things.
Even with the amount of time I have been in Construction, I know when & where to ask what ever is needed, before doing or reporting jsut in case of recent changes.
Since late 94 or 95 til 2003 I cannot tell you the amount of litigation jobs I have been involved with from simple repairs to complete homes, from H/Os to Lawyers that do residential litigation as a practice and had the same problems of having to sue to get the Contractor to perform the needed repairs. I have also taken jobs for another Builder who was being sued by a H/O & won the case. I perform inspections & make recommendations for other builders when they feel they are close to being drug into litigation, to help prevent the litigation. I have also done consulting for Engineers when the first syn stucco law suits began around Coastal SC & the courts began requiring Engineers as expert witness, (not for design or construction, but for my experience in repairs & knowledge of construction methods typically used around here. It helped in the # of cut outs they needed to make.

My reason for joining this Forum was in hopes of offering what I am able to some working their way up or having problems with what ever & wanting to do it the best possible way.
With the time I have to devote here as well as this economic mess we are in, some of the most simple tips along with offerings of others can make the difference between being in business today and not tomorrow.
It is a great site with enough experience to resolve the most difficult problem.
I recently ran into a situation, just one that I had never had experience with before, on Metal roofing, my code books only go back to the 1995 residential building code, Tinner, one of the roofers here posted right away & offered some good info. There are some well rounded guys here with knowledge from how to market your business, to the nails per board needed, to handing the keys back over to the H/O to prevent from being sued. Where else can one get this info in one place?
Nothing beats Experience !!! (not even money) And it is all right here in one place for what ever market one is in.
 

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Al Smith
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burby regarding this post
http://www.contractortalk.com/f33/windows-rotten-sill-18872/#post565840

why do you remove all the interior trim? Ive found that if i carefully remove the apron and then extract the nails that sometimes exist from the underside of the stool to the side casings and then cut the nails under the stool to the sill i can safely extract the stool as well. I leave the interior casing in place to hold the jambs in place, many times when I find a rotting sill the rabbeted pockets at the jambs have already started to rot away and i cut these off at the sill. With the stool removed I can then fasten the new sill by screwing up into the jambs on both the interior and exterior. Ive also done this with twins taking care to locate the mulled jambs exactly centered on the new sill. with deep stools Ive had to pull back the casing legs because of the taper, but i tack them back on again so the jambs don't move and drop the sashes. most times I find if i have sill rot the brick mould needs replacing. so the interior trim is important to hold everything in place temporarily. Interior casing never seems to go back in place 100% especially with cross pinned corners.
 

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thats true Al by the time you remove the inside caesing then fix any rotten wood then reinstall the inside trim probebly have to remove and replace the storm i feel you just might as well install a new unit, unless your dealing with a historic repair
 

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burby regarding this post
http://www.contractortalk.com/f33/windows-rotten-sill-18872/#post565840

why do you remove all the interior trim? Ive found that if i carefully remove the apron and then extract the nails that sometimes exist from the underside of the stool to the side casings and then cut the nails under the stool to the sill i can safely extract the stool as well. I leave the interior casing in place to hold the jambs in place, many times when I find a rotting sill the rabbeted pockets at the jambs have already started to rot away and i cut these off at the sill. With the stool removed I can then fasten the new sill by screwing up into the jambs on both the interior and exterior. Ive also done this with twins taking care to locate the mulled jambs exactly centered on the new sill. with deep stools Ive had to pull back the casing legs because of the taper, but i tack them back on again so the jambs don't move and drop the sashes. most times I find if i have sill rot the brick mould needs replacing. so the interior trim is important to hold everything in place temporarily. Interior casing never seems to go back in place 100% especially with cross pinned corners.
As I mentioned above a few times. This allows for inspection & adding preservitive to the wood jambs under the liner.
Followed by being able to shim the window as should, 3 points on each side.
Once all back together, the can R&R the brick mold & then the unit is properly supported by the shims, not just the thin edge of the interior trim.
Like I mentioned, once I complete a unit, it is like new in the way it operates. And more times than not, I am asked to service all windows in the home, even more money. :thumbsup:
I let clients know from the get go, if they wish to hire another that does less & for less, that is fine by me, no hard feelings, I have more than enough work and more than enough windows on the schedule.

Once I begin work on a unit, I am and should be responsible for everything on that unit, from inspection of the unit as a whole, to repair, to service, that is the way I have always done work & always will.

Some of the sub-divisions I work in allow only wood windows, no vinyl, cladding, only wood. Today's wood windows for the most part have the 20 yr warranty wood, nice, ones that don't are changing to it in the near future.
Homes that have wood windows of 15 to 20 years ago, ordering a new unit would not match in all aspects in a lot of cases, so customers want a repair that will last, not a repair based on a partial or less expensive.
I do a lot of Malta wood windows, you can not pull out a Malta unit and install another brand, Malta size was different from others. They have now been bought out & re-opened, but new units today still do not totally match up to the older units. Features are different.

Another important reason for removing the liners is to allow sealing the sill to the jambs, the entire length of sill/jamb joint to prevent wind driven rains from being blown in & seeping into the framed opening. Then causing wood decay to the jamb legs or worst.
A repair should, imo, repair a damaged part as well as make it better to prevent further damage in the future.
Some of the decay work I do is because of that reason alone. Repairs made by others failed to do a proper repair & still allowed moisture to enter causing more decay & damage.


With jamb rot, that is another subject, as with frame rot, or rot extending into the wall cavity. This thread was in regards to window sill rot & cost.
Casements & or clads the same, both I repair as well if unable to match the unit or purchase individual parts.
The houses I do window repair in don't just have 10 or so windows. They have more than that on the front of the house alone.

Like I said there is several types of markets in window repair, I like mine, it pays very well, without the need to advertise or compete. :thumbup:
 

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Here is a pic of a window unit first repaired by others because of price, then I was called back to correct the repair.
When the H/O was getting prices, he used my quote sheet to get fair bids as he said. This repair guy said he would do all I list & do it for 1/2 the price, regardless what my price was. So the H/O showed him my price and said no problem, (or at least that is what I was told by the H/O)

Look at the amount & size of nails the other guy put in the jamb liner stops, hahahaha :eek: makes ya wonder, he had to have extra nails he was trying to get rid of. Every unit I repaired of his was the same. If the H/O had not beein standing there the whole time to see the damage the other guy caused I would have taken some pics of his sill install, that was to funny. One of the sills he actually cut 1/2" or more short & caulked the margin with latex on each side. What the hell, it is only a 1/4" on each side. hahaha At least he attempted to caulk it. Most sagged down prior to drying. Some I do, that others did, only have the jamb joint caulked from the liner to the brickmold, trapping any wind blown water inside.
I went ahead & installed new sash packs with this repair because of some of the chips on the sashes other guy broke off.
This had to be his first complete repair..
Beating my price will cost him so much more now. :clap:
 

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Any of us fools with a brake can cap a rotted sill to look like new. BTW - capping usually accelerates rot and forces the problem inward to the structure. Burby is on track with the whole window approach. The rotted sill is rarely just the result of a paint failure. It can be a lack of cap flashing, failed caulk/flashings on old wood-sided homes, and most often a result of poor siding installation. It is worth noting that the rot can come from the inside out as well. Air leaks around casing, through the gaps between window jambs and studs and hits the back of cold exterior trim casing. Here the vapor condenses and settles to the sill. Many windows are stuffed with fiberglass to fill this gap - I've even found old newspaper behind the casing. The only effective way to stop the vapor condensation issue is to caulk small gaps behind casing and/or to remove the porous in-fill material and replace with spray foam. The rotted sill is usually just a symptom of some other window problem! If you wanna be a house doctor, you can't just treat the symptom.
 

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Last I checked ours were watertight too. Sadly Burby has Mike Holmes syndrome none of us will ever live up to his greatness come on Tom, us fools better get back to our lowly brake. and leave the real work to the "house doctor"
 

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Last I checked ours were watertight too. Sadly Burby has Mike Holmes syndrome none of us will ever live up to his greatness come on Tom, us fools better get back to our lowly brake. and leave the real work to the "house doctor"
dayum, hahaha, where did I say my way was right or wrong?? I said "this is the way I do it" for "my" customers.

One can cap a sill and it sure be water tight, but water does not have to enter thru the sill only.
Additionally, covering wood decay can cause one to loose their lisc, I like mine as well as the money I receive, as well as knowing when I leave there is no visible wood decay.

What you or anyone offer your customers is totally your business. :thumbsup:
 

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Al Smith
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It all depends on what you can sell. if you are working in a historic community like Cape May in NJ or Ocean Grove, or restoring windows in a Hapgood in mountain lakes. Fine. You won't be capping windows or installing vinyl replacement windows in those communities. But the rest of us have to eat. And some of our customers are blue collar or own rental properties in places like Keansburg or Sayreville. And I can guarantee you will have a tough time selling those customers a sash and frame rebuild. In the real world your customers have varying income levels and you skill at selling is to anticipate the needs and budget of your next customer. If you are lucky and busy enough to confine your sales to a wealthy community then more power to you. Myself and others here are waiting for the phone to ring.

one other thing
If capping a wood window is such a fatal stroke to the integrity of the unit, Then manufacturers would not bother to clad only the exterior of their wood windows.
 

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one other thing
If capping a wood window is such a fatal stroke to the integrity of the unit, Then manufacturers would not bother to clad only the exterior of their wood windows.
Sadly many manufacturers cant get it right. I cant tell you how many Andersen windows we replace that are rotted from the inside out. Especially the 200 series that are wide open in the corners. Even on the 400's the vinyl cladding often cracks and lets water in. On the sashes, all that keeps the water out is a bead of silicone!!!! At least the metal clad window companies make a dado for the cladding to lock into.
 

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Al Smith
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Sadly many manufacturers cant get it right. I cant tell you how many Andersen windows we replace that are rotted from the inside out. Especially the 200 series that are wide open in the corners. Even on the 400's the vinyl cladding often cracks and lets water in. On the sashes, all that keeps the water out is a bead of silicone!!!! At least the metal clad window companies make a dado for the cladding to lock into.
the 200s are garbage and are not reaaly clad, thats just a thick coating.

and yes if you crack the cladding on a 400 they will leak, Maybe its the mild climate here in NJ but even the narrolines i installed 25/30 years ago are still going strong with no soft spots.
 

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Al Smith
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"Maybe its the mild climate here in NJ"
heck of an ice storm in north jersey today AL
:laughing: no ice in Highland Park today where i worked a half day.

what a coincidence tom!


good thing I'm home because someone named "tom" just called and he left a message saying he "needs a contractor", wonder if i should bother to get up and see what the caller id says? How much you want to bet its service magic or similar? I'm getting a lot of those lately.
 

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I get these stupid calls from people saying "hi do you do siding" yes "ok where abouts are you located?" Ok well we have a customer that we would like to connect you with that needs siding and is ready to sign a contract with you. All you need to do is join our program for $xxx.xx per month and we can connect you with this customer. When are these lead companies gonna stop
 

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if done right metal can be made watertight
I totally agree. I have a brake and I'm not afraid to use it!!!I've capped a lot of sills over the past 35 years as well. I just wanted to point out that there are a LOT of cases where the dampness is coming from other sources/causes that the capping will not only not cure, but can make worse. I sure didn't mean to get anyone ouchy. If you know all about proper treatment of wall penetrations and are still cool with capping that sill, great. But if the reason for the sill deterioration is questionable, it bears some serious investigation. That's all I meant.
 

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one other thing
If capping a wood window is such a fatal stroke to the integrity of the unit, Then manufacturers would not bother to clad only the exterior of their wood windows.[/quote]

I understand why you would think that, Al, but it's two totally different scenarios. The inside of clad windows are free to ventilate and are adjacent to warm, circulating air - at least much more so than a capped sill. No one is saying the capping of a sill is a bad thing, per se. It just doesn't fly as a stand-alone cure to a rot problem, AND can worsen the rot problem. ---And you will often find discoloration or rot on lower sash rails of clad windows!
 
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