Some great points made here. This is yet again, another great argument for charging for bids. As Chris and others have pointed out, breaking down a bid in minute detail will require more time. I guarantee that if a customer asks for this breakdown, and your response is " I can absolutely give you the cost breakdown. I will just need a check for $125 for the itemized bid", the conversation will end there.

 

Don't do it. A detailed quote, showing labor and materials, is a valuable document. It's the rough draft of a project plan, and you should not give it away.

The only real reason a customer asks for these numbers is to shop your quote around to other contractors, often a CraigsList guy (or other lowballer) who doesn't have the knowledge or skills to measure, choose materials, do takeoff, or estimate time. A materials takeoff and estimate of time is solid gold for those guys.

This request doesn't allow you to quote by a standard rate or other rule of thumb, either.

If I've done the numbers, and I have some reason to share some bit of them with a homeowner (some material is super expensive, for example), I never leave the paperwork with the customer even for a moment. In one case a husband asked me to explain a detail in another room; on a hunch I turned around and went back to the kitchen, and found his wife clicking away at my spreadsheet with her smartphone camera. They were a nice academic/professional couple.

When a customer asks, I tell them that it's a significant part of my project plan, that it's valuable, and that I can't give it away.

I used to give detailed breakdowns, but I've stopped. I now waste less time on those leads, and I get awarded more jobs - those people come back when they find out that they can't get a firm price from the CraigsList guy, if they can't give him my detailed quote.


Don't do it.

 

Don't do it. A detailed quote, showing labor and materials, is a valuable document. It's the rough draft of a project plan

Very wise man, you is, like a wise, veteran contractor/businessman.

I moved and when in a new area, I put out a lot of feelers to see what the local market was like. I got one guy that bit on the "free estimates" thing. I visited his house and walked through with him all the work he needed to have done. About a minute into it, I realized what was going on. He was a rather studious and meticulous customer, making sure he bought all the right material in the right amounts. Man, don't we as professionals appreciate an informed and attentive customer?

Never got that obamajob. Yeah, it was pure fiction. On the bright side, with his detailed material list, his job will oba--I mean--fail. He won't be able to do the processes needed but he will save 'big money!' :laughing: OK, he might be able to slap/vomit up something.... but while it probably will look like fecal matter, it WILL fail.

Oh...sorry, got distracted for a moment. What I left out for his line item materials list--I'd provide FREE! Yes at NO COST to him!!!--was what would make the whole thing work.

Yeah, those were leftovers (free to him) that would make that job work were from the last job or second to the last, or buddha only knows how many jobs ago.

I dunno. Mebbe I should keep track of every nail and screw, every inch of material, weigh every bucket/pail, etc. Nah, someone else will just show up on that (or many other) homes and after the owner fully badmouths the "previous contractor" that "cheated him" and "did such shoddy work".

Cut him/her/it a break due to their misfortune and they will work with you too! :laughing:

Yes, this is why I rarely do residential as it's too hit and miss on the owner's end, and in their defense, the residential remod market is the most screwed up market their is.

 

There's some interesting views here. Up until last month I have never had to do a break down of any kind for a customer. I had this one guy call me about a deck. I already knew he had 2-3 others out there to price the deck and he asked to if I could do a break down of materials and labor. I didn't see an issue with this as he knew the majority of the material costs anyway as he spent a lot of time researching the project.

It seemed to help me out as he knew exactly what product brands were being used, the cost of these products and what was going into the build. The other guys just quoted basic pricing and did not mention what brands or products they would be using. I didn't go detailed and give him exact specs of the products like dimensions and qty but enough that he could see why my cost was so much more. I was the highest bid but the best products and design layout. Now let me say I ain't got this job yet but I would be very surprised if I didn't get it. If I don't then I won't ever break down a price ever again.

 

There is a difference between the type (make, model) of material and the cost of that material. The type of material absolutely belongs in the conversation, that along with craftsmanship are the main reasons for the higher price.

I will talk and detail material types all day, called out in the scope on the bid, absolutely.

You tell 'em it will be Ipe and why that is great but that is completely different than detailing it's cost on the contract.

Just wanted to clarify that. Informing clients about the what and why of better materials helps the situation, detailing the exact cost (as opposed to generally in the scope phase) I think not so much.

 

The time I do break it down is when it's t&m . Like for service work or emergency repair .

 

BCC, always an interesting outcome in such circumstances. My experience is that unless the person is an engineer type, they are just nickle and dimers that will never be happy--and neither will anyone that is ever involved with them in any business transaction.


Stuff like this is little more than professional "consulation".
Lawyers don't make anything, but do they charge for how-to advice?
Do doctors diagnose you and give you a remedy for free also?
Can someone tell me how to fix this and give me a detailed list of what I need? Oh, and I don't have to pay you for your time, nor effort.

Crazy world out there. Next thing ya know, some smart arse will try and tell us our goobermint has been lying to us all along...... nah.......
Weird.

 

DON'T DO IT!!!

all your doing is wasting your time.

the average small job 5k to 15k takes me at least 4 hrs to price out site visit etc.
usually 4hrs of time I'll never get directly paid for

people will turn around and use your time and effort to low ball you, give your break down to tommy who has a "GREAT PRICE" but doesn't know what he's doing, or bust you down because your making "way to much money" off of them

the only reasons I'd break down a price is:

repeat customer who I love

customer has signed a contract

customer is more than likely going to use you for the project, your taking a risk, but if it will seal the deal

rarely do I ever give out anything more than one number: labor and materials

 

Agree :thumbsup:

 

Answer to the op's question: NO (99% of the time).

If a need arises on occasion and I feel it necessary it would be as follows:

Fixed price contract = $2,000.00

Labor & Materials broken down =

Labor = $1750.00
Materials = $500.00
Total = $2250.00

Unrelated, I also do the same when people ask for separate prices to do jobs A, B, C & D vs all in one contract.

 

I've had 1 or 2 people ask for a break down and I told them I dont do that. My price is what it is.

 

I don't itemize my invoice or estimates. This is my business model...not the customers. Do they go to a resturant and ask how the owner to what their costs are? Biggest reason.....allows the customer to use your estimate as a shopping list and cut you out.

 

LOL honestly I just read what you typed after what I just posted. Basically saying the same thing:thumbup:

 

Never. Most businesses don't seperate their costs on the bill. I never asked the chef the wholesale cost of my steak they just cooked.

The only reason people want it broken down is so they can price shop and give you a headache about your price.

One solid price take it or leave it.

 

I try not to.

Well I am new at this type of work. I have never been a carpenter never pretended to be. I carry insurance and pay my taxes and pay my carpenter his helper and two painter. They mostly fall under day labor with me. They have their regular work and from time to time I turn them on to work I get asked about and fit it under my business. I do pressure washing. It what I know. I have plenty to learn but I have got it down. I get asked all the time to break down cost and labor. I can't begin to explain how many times I get asked "why some much and hour for your machine" Well a good pressure washer only stays good if you run it right. even if you do it still is a machine that has only so much life in it. Right? Now I really don't and can't give a break down to my customers. I nearly lost my shirt last week when I gave an estimate for a house/deck wash and staining of a deck. All because I gave her a break down of cost and labor. We washed the home and I sent my painters over while I worked on another house in the neighborhood. I had to then leave for supplies for another job. The customer had left a check only for the labor of the painters feeling she supplied the stain that that was enough. The cost of my paint sprayer brushes rollers tape tarps etc. was never even a thought in her head. The work took a few hours more than expected which happens from time to time. Yall have much more to break down in your carpentry etc. I could only imagine. So Nope set my price and walk away if I gotta.

 

It just seems like we are the only ones who get asked this. The job is a deck. Tear off old decking and replace with new decking. They want me to break down how much im charging to remove it. How much jm charging to install it. And how much the material is costing me We are supplying a service they want. They dont ask to break down the cost of stuff they purchase at a store. Why dont they ask them , how much was the shipping on this product. How much was the assembly of this product. How much is your overhead to store this product. Just getting tired of it

As a a business owner…you have the ability to pick and choose your customers. If you get that bad customer feeling. Move on. Save the headache and stress. There’s more fish like there’s more women after a divorce 🤙🏼

 

As a a business owner…you have the ability to pick and choose your customers. If you get that bad customer feeling. Move on. Save the headache and stress. There’s more fish like there’s more women after a divorce 🤙🏼

You're quoting someone that hasn't been here since 2015 on a 10 year old thread.

 

This site is for professional contractors visit DIYchatroom or any other room

 

Alrighty then.....