Unless the job is time and material or cost plus...I wouldn't

 

I don't see a problem with separating material & labor. In fact, I always do. I don't go crazy with it, but usually go to the extent of: windows & doors: ***x, framing: ***x, finish & trim: ***x, plumbing: ***x, HVAC: ***x, etc...

I Make sure to put the brands of big ticket items (windows, doors, HVAC units, etc...) so they know they are getting quality products for the price.

 

Depends upon the job, but I usually don't as I see no reason why they would need to know the cost breakdown of things unless they are only interested in paying for part of it. They pay the whole bill, so I give them the whole price. I guess the equivalent from our end would be to ask them how much equity they have in their house and how much money they make.

 

This is all part of a new culture and mind set. There are so many people playing contractor that do it part time or temporarily that they day labor. The costs and bids have wild swings.
Like the south americans, they dont carry alot of insurance or pay into retirement accounts they work for the day. I swear it seems like if you put more than 10% mark-up on a job these days people dont call you back. The under bidding is bad.

 

It just seems like we are the only ones who get asked this.

The job is a deck. Tear off old decking and replace with new decking.

They want me to break down how much im charging to remove it. How much jm charging to install it. And how much the material is costing me

We are supplying a service they want. They dont ask to break down the cost of stuff they purchase at a store. Why dont they ask them , how much was the shipping on this product. How much was the assembly of this product. How much is your overhead to store this product.
Just getting tired of it

 

Just trying to find a nice way to say. Sorry i dont break down the cost. Without sounding like im hiding something.
Theres alot involved in a price. Overhead. Time to and from supply yard. Figuring estimate. Insurance. Etc

 

"Sorry, lump sum only."

I emailed that to an adjuster yesterday who wanted a breakdown. The job was an hour away, in the sticks, so no close suppliers. The 50 year old mobile home was falling apart so badly, that I was afraid that I could knock it down with my framing hammer.

His bidding software (Exactimate?) couldn't rectify my bid numbers. I should have told him, 'Why don't you have your bid software do the job.' :blink:

 

If a customer asks us to do that we simply explain that our pricing is based on formula's that are update bi-annually to allow for market fluctuation. We put in SF, CF, LF or whatever measurement is needed and the price is automatically generated.

We provide a detailed scope of work along with a total investment for your project.

To go back and break it down item by item would take a long time and that would cost $X X X.00

 

Ask them why they need the breakdown.

 

The fact that there asking says it all doesnt it?

I priced out a deck for someone recently. It was an existing treated 2nd floor deck. No stair footings, the stair landing was out of square with the deck, the existing footings were all heaved and they wanted a capped composite deck. The existing was diagonal and straight runs were too long without butt joints so inlays and picture framing was needed. No existing 4x4 or blocking anywhere. (more framing). Plus a cantilver and lateral connectors were needed. Almost no nails in existing joist hangers.
I broke it down by footing repairs, framing modifactions and code upgrades, decking and PVC skirting. I knew it was going to be expensive and the repairs were not an option but the finishing can be. Maybe I was just a price check for someone else but I couldnt even get a budget out of them or a sit down follow up on what we can do and where.

 

I recently had an architect ask me to itemize a punch list, and it was a bunch of little stuff. After she got it, she haggled the line items. I kindly told her that maybe she could get her husband to do some of the work...."oh no, he doesn't have the time!"

For small jobs I try not to, but they seem to be asking more and more anyway. I did a crown job recently that was patching into existing. 6 walls, all corners were connecting to existing work since I removed a bunch of window treatment boxes. Half of the work was 3-part build up. I gave the total linear feet of the work, and that's it. Not my material breakdown.

Bigger jobs do get some breakdown if I must, and even that can be tricky. You don't want to lose a bath remodel over a $300 difference in a line item like demo & trash haul, but folks will get hung up on a simple thing like that.

 

"I'm sorry, I do not break down my quotes, this price is inclusive of all materials, labor and overhead. If you would like to remove or add to the job, just let me know now and I will adjust the quotation for you."

 

Send them both separately and they will see that the combined total is higher. :thumbsup:

 

So true.

I was asked to break a job down to room by room a couple yrs ago.

 

Send them both separately and they will see that the combined total is higher. :thumbsup:

This is what i was thinking.

 

It completely depends on the job but typical I give a fixed rate bulk prices and when people ask me I tell them this:

The price I propose is based upon a fixed rate calculation, there are no additional charger if the job goes beyond my estimate. If you would prefer to work on a time and material basis my hourly rate per man/hr is $75.

If you would like a labor or material only estimate their combined total will be higher as complete project fixed rate pricing is lower.

 

It completely depends on the job but typical I give a fixed rate bulk prices and when people ask me I tell them this:

The price I propose is based upon a fixed rate calculation, there are no additional charger if the job goes beyond my estimate. If you would prefer to work on a time and material basis my hourly rate per man/hr is $75.

If you would like a labor or material only estimate their combined total will be higher as complete project fixed rate pricing is lower.

I like that. But, the part about no additional charge if the job goes beyond the estimate can be taken a few ways no?
What if you find damage that was unseen and needs to be repaired to complete your job. Do you just fix it at no cost? Just thinking how a homeowner may read that.

 

Hidden / concealed clause in the contract covers this.

 

I try to from the start, but if they want a itemized bill then they will pay for every screw and bolt that I use.

 

but if they want a itemized bill then they will pay for every screw and bolt that I use.

As contractors, we know we always carry forward items from one job to another, so a job prior paid for the handful of screws you are using in the present job. And the present job is paying for the leftover piece of window flashing that will be used on the next job. And that job...

But an interesting thought:
For such itemization of minutiae as the customer desires, where exactly does consumables come in, like sanding paper, saw blades, safety glasses, ear plugs, screwgun bits, buckets, compressor oil, etc. ?
Or are these items something we as contractors are just supposed to eat?


I've done some time/material jobs where the cust wanted to purchase the items themselves--for a variety of reasons. So sometimes they get cheap garbage, and/or not enough, or the exact amount. All this results in my time lost which translates to them into higher labor costs/charges or the reduction in our price as we then have to work fewer hours per (that) day (week). Our fixed costs are the same, fuel is the same going/coming, etc. but if we only work 6 hours instead of 8, we got paid 20% less for that day--yet our fixed costs were the same for that day.

And if the job takes longer, not only are we making less money and even losing money, we are missing out on actually making what money we should be making by doing other jobs for our 'standard rate'. This is the "opportunity cost" we (sometimes) pay by working for people/businesses that short/fight/haggle/cheapskate us.

 

We only break down a job for the different scopes of work, Siding installed , soffit and fascia work installed , windows installed price. Or anything else it is sold as a completed job material and labor. Most of the time we order extra material to make sure there is as little hold up on the job as can be, And we will tell the customer that and that any extra material belongs to us.

 

the short answer is,

"No."

slightly longer answer is, " I am sorry, but is our company policy to not spend time on a break down of that sort"

Additionally I can tell you that in 25 plus years of my running this gig and as far as I know in the last 4 generations of my families envolvement in this business we have never gotten a job after being asked for this breakdown-so when asked I immediately begin dis-engaging and heading for the exit------------

but if you want some giggles---------- just look them in the eye and ask them why they want that sort of breakdown------------ because invariably they will turn 8 shades of red,hem,haw ,stammer,and finally admidt they intend to price shop different operations, nickel and dime you, self perform some of the work and in-general waste your time.

actually they are doing you a favor by asking for that breakdown,because it is a crystal clear signal that you can stop wasting time on them, LOL
Stephen

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have our winner here.:clap:

I recently took a job after the customers asked for a breakdown which I didn't give them. They burned me for $960.00. I deserved to lose every penny for not listening to myself.

Joe

 

Everybody does it differently, I am a "fair" person, and we did alot of insurance jobs that require a line by line itemization of both materials and labors...after a little bit I seen when we have ammendments to jobs for unforseen, addon's etc...just how easy it was for me to change things and keep track of things.

So I adopted it into my day to day bidding, and I actually sold jobs because people told me they appreciated the break down since it shows them where the money is going exactly. We were'nt a high pressure sales outfit...I knew my costs and what percentages I needed to profit and there was NO negotiation on labor..if they wanted a lower price, scoped of job got deleted or materials got downgraded to fit within the budget; not labor.

For the guys with the ability to sell $1000 per opening replacement vinyl windows for instance...they do not want anything to do with itemization as it will show their hand, and I get that. For the guys that dont have the ability to high pressure sale and extreme overcharge, there are advantages for both you and the customer doing line by line breakdowns.

 

I don't think high pressure sales or extreme overcharges have anything to do with it.

In our case we are very low pressure and if you broke pricing down to low,medium and high-we are at the low end of high or the high end of medium-my two most frequent competitors are some what higher than me and the 3 of us are a good bit more expensive tan the rest of the pack---------------------------

it's a business choice and I don't see any advantage to my company in providing breakdowns to people who are historically not going to become paying customers.

I prefer to spend my time meeting and helping people who ARE going to pay for the service,
Stephen

 

I just finished signing a contract where every single item was broken down. My fees, my subs fees, items with no mark up, allowances, etc.

It was a new experience for me. I think I like it, with one caviat. We didn't haggle on price. We only negotiated the scope of work. She even made sure I had line items covered I had missed. She is used to doing this in her former job, which made it much easier.

In the end I basically have a checklist of tasks for my guys to do.

 

We used to line item our estimates and billing. But have gotten away from it. We will break out tasks or budget items, and we also have very detailed estimates, but one total at the bottom. I find, like others here, that the ones that want to know how much every detail will cost, are not going to be fun clients.

 

I build a lot of decks, and I have always bid by the square foot.

Having to break things down is a huge red flag. It just opens the door for argument.

 

Curious...where's the arguement going to stem from? Materials cost what materials cost, simple as that. You/homeowner both know what your states tax rate is...nothing to hide from there either.

Labor rate? that's not a negotiable rate since your overhead/operating costs are exactly what they are. They want cheaper, downgrade the product or remove scopes of said project. As the person if they would go to work for $10 less per hour and still the do the same exact job...when they say hell no, ask them why they expect you to lost money to work for them.

Clients always told me I was the mid-high, to high bid of the ones they got, the reason they went with us was professional presentation, ability to answer all questions, and this is what it's going to take to perform the job line by line...the line by line point was what sold the jobs more often then i ever would've gave it credit for, but homeowners like that.

Think if you took your truck around to get a weird shifting issue fixed. You get estimates for-
"fix shifting issue- $2000" by 3 shops.

then you get a quote for
"check fluid level
remove trans pan
remove valve body
replace stuck ball, seized piston, and burnt solenoid $1250
replace all gaskets and fluids needed to make repairs $180

Labor to repair slow gear engaugement $700"



Got to remember, we're all consumers too, so think about what you want to see when you have to pay for a goods/service...we all like to see where our pennies are going.

 

I really don't break down anything in quotation or invoice purposes when I know I am purchasing all the materials. The price for materials when I'm buying materials is quoted at a box store price plus my 10% overhead. While discussing the job price and getting haggled I may say you're looking at roughly "x" amount of dollars for materials. If a customer wants a breakdown exactly for what materials is going to cost them, I tell them we can go together to the box store and buy the materials at retail cost. I buy majority of my materials at the box store but there are certain materials I don't buy at the box store because I can get better prices plus trade discount for at the manufacture,

 

What do you think McDonald's would say if you asked them to break down the cost of a Big Mac. They would laugh you out the door. The reason they don't is its proprietary information. If I bid a deck by the square foot it's because my costs are not public info.

 

Not really, feel them out a little these people watch too much DIY Network.

 

I find if a customer wants to breakdown the entire quote they are looking for the cheapest price...not the customer for me. There are so many little factors in what each of us do that I will not provide it. Little things add up, so a lot of it is guesstimating, for me it's items such as tie-wire, screws, bits, 14" quick cut blades, so many little sundries that add up, it would take me days and probably 3 sheets of paper to break it all out.