Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
And I was just whining about the price of liability insurance:

The Code Of Hammurabi circa 1760 BC

Law #229 stated "If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls and kills its owner then the builder shall be put to death."

Law #230. "If it kills the son of the owner, the son of that builder shall be put to death."

Deuteronomy Chapter 22 verse 8
"If thou shouldest build a new house, then shalt thou make a parapet to thy house; so thou shalt not bring blood-guiltiness upon thy house, if one should in any wise fall from it."
 

·
General Contractor
Joined
·
3,444 Posts
The Code of Hammurabi was one of several sets of laws in the Ancient Near East. Earlier collections of laws include the Code of Ur-Nammu, king of Ur (ca. 2050 BC), the Laws of Eshnunna (ca. 1930 BC) and the codex of Lipit-Ishtar of Isin (ca. 1870 BC), while later ones include the Hittite laws, the Assyrian laws, and Mosaic Law. These codes come from similar cultures in a relatively small geographical area, and they have passages which resemble each other.
The code is often pointed to be a primary example of even a king not being able to change fundamental laws concerning the governing of a country which was the primitive form of what is now known as a constitution.
The Babylonians and their neighbors developed the earliest system of economics that was fixed in a legal code, using a metric of various commodities. The early law codes from Sumer could be considered the first (written) economic formula, and have many attributes still in use in the current price system today, such as codified amounts of money for business deals (interest rates), fines in money for wrongdoing, inheritance rules and laws concerning how private property is to be taxed or divided.
Examples






Here are eleven example laws, in their entirety, of the Code of Hammurabi, translated into English:
  • If a man kills another man's son his son shall be cut off.
  • If anyone ensnares another, putting a ban upon him, but he cannot prove it, then he that ensnared him shall be put to death.
  • If anyone brings an accusation against a man, and the accused goes to the river and leaps into the river, if he sinks in the river his accuser shall take possession of his house. But if the river proves that the accused is not guilty, and he escapes unhurt, then he who had brought the accusation shall be put to death, while he who leaped into the river shall take possession of the house that had belonged to his accuser.
  • If anyone brings an accusation of any crime before the elders, and does not prove what he has charged, he shall, if a capital offense is charged, be put to death.
  • If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then the builder shall be put to death.(Another variant of this is, If the owner's son dies, then the builder's son shall be put to death.)
  • If a son slaps his father, his hand shall be cut off.
  • If a man give his child to a nurse and the child dies in her hands, but the nurse unbeknown to the father and mother nurses another child, then they shall convict her of having nursed another child without the knowledge of the father and mother and her breasts shall be cut off.
  • If anyone steals the minor son of another, he shall be put to death.
  • If a man takes a woman to wife, but has no intercourse with her, this woman is no wife to him.
  • If a man strikes a pregnant woman, thereby causing her to miscarry and die, the assailant's daughter shall be put to death.
  • If a man puts out the eye of an equal, his eye shall be put out.
  • If a man knocks the teeth out of another man, his own teeth will be knocked out.
  • If anyone strikes the body of a man higher in rank than he, he shall receive sixty blows with an ox-whip in public.
  • If a freeborn man strikes the body of another freeborn man of equal rank, he shall pay one gold mina [an amount of money].
  • If the slave of a freed man strikes the body of a freed man, his ear shall be cut off.
  • If anyone commits a robbery and is caught, he shall be put to death.
  • If anyone opens his ditches to water his crop, but is careless, and the water floods his neighbor's field, he shall pay his neighbor corn for his loss.
  • If a judge tries a case, reaches a decision, and presents his judgment in writing; and later it is discovered that his decision was in error, and it was his own fault, he shall pay twelve times the fine set by him in the case and be removed from the judge's bench.
There are 282 such laws in the Code of Hammurabi, each usually no more than a sentence or two. The 282 laws are bracketed by a Prologue in which Hammurabi introduces himself, and an Epilogue in which he affirms his authority and sets forth his hopes and prayers for his code of laws.
This also gave rise to the profession of lawyering. And you KNOW they hit the ground running.







Take the example of the builder…..
  • If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then the builder shall be put to death.(Another variant of this is, If the owner's son dies, then the builder's son shall be put to death.)
LET'S GO TO COURT:

If a “BUILDER”…. (As here stated, it can be argued that this person somehow has to be previously considered, indeed, a ‘builder’… Bettcha, someone soon thought up ‘licensing’ and fees) builds a house for someone (now we argue the determination of just who this house was built for… was it a ‘spec’ house? Was it built for a developer who then sold it to the owner in question?) and does not construct it properly (Here come ‘codes ’and ‘expert witness’ testimony… and subsequent interpretation of them… And here began the ‘Building Department’, with all their inspections.) and the house which he built (Ah… but did HE, himself, [the builder] build ALL of that house? Were there subs? Did the HO do some of the work himself?) falls in (Clearly, the house must have fallen IN… not DOWN.. nor OUTWARD, etc. And it seems to indicate the house in its entirety, not just a portion such as only a wall or the roof.) and kills its owner (Here we have more specifics to determine. Who, indeed, is the owner as it relates to the builder? If he built for a third party who sold this house to the deceased, then can he be held responsible for any and all possible alterations or code violations that may, or may not, have occurred in the interim? Then comes the all important question of just how the owner died. Did the house do it? Or was it the fault of poor emergency medical team response? Perhaps malpractice by the attending physician? Did a bystander try to move him?

And we don’t even want to get into the legal hassles when it comes down to determining the status of son for each of the parties involved.

What a mess can (and sure HAS) come from a few simple, well intended laws.

Yet, today, we still want more and more regulations. Wow! You’d think we would have learned way back then.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zenn68 and mics_54

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
I think it's a common human nature to convince oneself to accept those things one cannot change and become apathetic or even convince oneself to actually enjoy the experience and to come to advocate the very oppression one may endure, becomeing more than a victim of the oppression but an oppressor.

I may have to comply...but I don't have to like it or agree to it.
 

·
General Contractor
Joined
·
3,444 Posts
I think it's a common human nature to convince oneself to accept those things one cannot change and become apathetic or even convince oneself to actually enjoy the experience and to come to advocate the very oppression one may endure, becomeing more than a victim of the oppression but an oppressor.

I may have to comply...but I don't have to like it or agree to it.
Abused spouses and children who respond to negative attention come to mind.... Kind of disconcerting, eh?

When and why did we relinquish the responsibility for ourselves and our actions to a governing body? Back in Babylonian times, I guess.
 

·
General Contractor
Joined
·
3,444 Posts
Can you imagine the slaughter on America's streets today if something so 'anti-society" as The Boston Tea Party were even attempted? Yet we esteem those independent thinking forefathers of ours as American heroes. Today, we would brand them criminals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,476 Posts
Deuteronomy Chapter 22 verse 8
"If thou shouldest build a new house, then shalt thou make a parapet to thy house; so thou shalt not bring blood-guiltiness upon thy house, if one should in any wise fall from it."

What happens if you live in MI and someone's on your parapet and an ice dam falls on them and kills them? No matter what we do, there's always a lawyer, or, in other words a sly dog that can word his way out of any wrong doing in any situation.

Another interesting one is the 7 year jubilee. I'll just post a link because it's a tedious read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(Biblical)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,476 Posts
Can you imagine the slaughter on America's streets today if something so 'anti-society" as The Boston Tea Party were even attempted? Yet we esteem those independent thinking forefathers of ours as American heroes. Today, we would brand them criminals.
This has alot to do w/ the mindset of people today. It didn't turn into a slaughter back then because they had an agenda that they stuck to. It didn't turn into an opportunity to steal and murder because they were fighting for their freedom, not rioting like wild animals w/ no reasoning.

It would also be considered anti-society because in todays society you listen to your government instead of (the way it was) your government listening to you. The right to keep and bear arms was instituted so we civilians could defend ourselves against the government and they want to take that away as well so we're not as much of a 'threat to ourselves'.

Now we fight wars based on something no one is even sure about. I've heard it said that soldiers fight a battle regardless of whether it's right or wrong, they do it because they were told to. Don't ask questions, just do it?? Who's in control?? A nation for the people by the people??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,476 Posts
I know I sound anti-American and don't I mean to come off that way. I don't think we need to start another revolutionary war- there would be no surer way to crumble society around us.

All I'm saying is government handouts breed apathy about what the government is doing- you can do whatever you want as long as I'm getting my check. That's a dangerous hold. Not to be overly obvious but if you have someone that's apathetic about a certain situation and someone who's on target w/ it, the apathetic person will loose for sure. I don't ever want to be apathetic about my freedom, I love my country and want to keep it that way.

I absolutely don't think more government is the solution to hacks in the industry. If you're a HO and you choose to save money by using someone that obviously has little or no experiance, you'll get what you paid for (or, in other words, what you deserve). Locking up anyone in this situation is ludicrous. You have two parties equally at fault. It's no different than buying a brand name cereal verses cheap cereal. In most instances, the brand name cereal tastes better. Should we lock up the generic cereal producers as well??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I know I sound anti-American and don't I mean to come off that way. I don't think we need to start another revolutionary war- there would be no surer way to crumble society around us.
I appreciate you taking a moment to think about this. The last civil war did get a little messy didn't it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,476 Posts
I appreciate you taking a moment to think about this. The last civil war did get a little messy didn't it?
I was actually more along the lines of when we went to war w/ Great Britain for our independace but, yes the last civil war did get messy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I was actually more along the lines of when we went to war w/ Great Britain for our independace but, yes the last civil war did get messy.
Yeah, I know, I'm just busting your chops.
It was a lot less lethal when all we had were smooth bore muskets with as much accuracy as I have nailing off decking. Keep me posted though if you guys decide to escalate. My GL doesn't cover civil unrest. I'll have to let my clients know there will be a delay in starting their projects.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Oh but uncle nanny has determined GL should cover acts of terrorism.
Even so...would you have a problem with that too?
At what point does Libertarianism become Anarchy?

Besides, I thought you guys insist on not being referred to as terrorists.
 

·
General Contractor
Joined
·
3,444 Posts
Man, though I want change (and NOT mr. O's kind) I am ever so thankful I'm not sitting in Philadelphia 230 whatever years ago with the weight of carving out a path for this new nation on my shoulders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
404 Posts
I thought this was going to be a thread about how things were done much better in the old days, in which I was going to respond that they we're not, unless if you go back about 150 years. I've worked on many turn of the century homes and they are crap. Especially from around 1910-1960.
 

·
topsail's trimcat
Joined
·
5,026 Posts
funny i was thinking this the other day, currently working on a complete reno on a house from the 40's.

i understand running t+g boards run on a 45 for sheathing makes a wall or floor stronger but i dont get how having only 2 nails per board can make a floor system perform with proper strength. in the process of prepping the old floor for a new tile floor i had to screw all the boards back the joists before glue and screwing 1/2" plywood for the tile
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top