Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner

1 - 20 of 140 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
We went to a movie last night called "Out of the Furnace" Part of the movie description said "a man with a dead end job". Why? Because he wore a hard hat everyday and sweated for 8 hours a day? Why is that something to be looked down on?

Do you know what I look down on? A man who has not the first clue how to fix his plumbing or wire something properly or build a structure with square corners. Just because you sit in a cubicle typing on a computer all day doesn't make you better than anyone else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,090 Posts
mike rowe works


he's got the Best explanations I heard.


You're looking down on someone, they are looking down on you LOL That's always a win for everybody. I have value way beyond doing that.
 

·
Capra Aegagrus
Joined
·
24,076 Posts
A hard hat doesn't mean it's a dead end job, but lack of opportunity for advancement does. Haven't seen the movie, but many such jobs are indeed pretty limited in opportunity.

Gotta say, just as a man who works with his hands shouldn't be looked down upon, neither should someone who does other than physical labor. At least the latter won't have worn out joints by middle age. :thumbsup:
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
44,117 Posts
If all we had were people who worked behind computers there would be nothing. Absolutely need the people to build the infrastructure and maintain it. Nothing to look down on. Without us, there is nothing. And I'd tell them that.
 

·
I own stock in FotoMat!
Joined
·
12,413 Posts
It becomes OK when those in the trade whore themselves just to work for a pittance. That trains people to believe all who do that sort of work are without dignity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ccappaul

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
23,771 Posts
It becomes OK when those in the trade whore themselves just to work for a pittance. That trains people to believe all who do that sort of work are without dignity.
I agree, but at times a guy has to do whatever to get a check.

Also the lack of true professionals in any of the trades and the lack of skilled help is a huge issue.

The BS that the DIY shows put out combined with the big box stores doesn't help either.
 

·
diplomat
Joined
·
5,292 Posts
A lot of us make the job a dead end job by spending everything we make. There's no retirement in a highly physical job with no benefits. They get worn out, and then what? Office jobs generally provide retirement and health care, even if you'd rather just be paid more.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
25,776 Posts
A lot of us make the job a dead end job by spending everything we make. There's no retirement in a highly physical job with no benefits. They get worn out, and then what? Office jobs generally provide retirement and health care, even if you'd rather just be paid more.
This is a good point, as far as perception from the outside world.

My grandpa never made a lot of money in a single year as a builder, but he retired (semi) when he was 62. He saved well and invested in rentals. My dad has done well on the same path. I bought my first rental last year.

The main issue I see is that most young guys want everything right now. :no: I'd rather sacrifice a little now instead of later. I could of sold my house last year, but I would of lost money on what I bought it for. Since I plan to have rentals, I decided to pay double mortgage payments and pay it off in 4 years. :censored: It will make a good rental.

Id rather dump it and go build a house right now, but financially it makes no sense. Luckily my wife is cool. :thumbsup:
 
  • Like
Reactions: donerightwyo

·
I own stock in FotoMat!
Joined
·
12,413 Posts
I agree, but at times a guy has to do whatever to get a check..............
Two totally different animals.

Being hungry is one thing. Pretending to be in business when you really shouldn't be is something else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RobertCDF

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
People who work with their hands give the rich bastards a place to call home tradesman make this world go around. If it weren't for boces(vo-tech) I would have dropped out of school.and farmed rest of my life we need.more.tradesman!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,518 Posts
I was out to dinner last night with a friend of mine and his wife. He has a job working behind a computer, compiling data or something like that. What exactly he does is irrelevant. Anyway, he bought his first house a year ago and has done/has plans for a lot of work. Every time we meet up he updates me on the work he's done, what needs to be done, etc. I will never do any work for him because I know the type that he is. He wants the cheapest possible price, but then is going to complain when the job looks like crap. And a lot of the work he does himself, and when it looks like crap he says its good enough no one can tell.

Anyway, my gripe and how it relates to trades people is this. He has all these jobs he wants done and wants to do it himself. So he says, I wanna build a deck in my backyard, do you think I could build a deck? I say gee I don't know, but its a little tricky if you've never done it before. He says well my brother in law has built two decks so ill have him help me, what do you think? Yea sure I suppose you could then.

Next thing he says, I need to drywall my dining room, do you think I could do that myself? Again, I explain to him I can't say, it all depends on his skill set, his tool set, etc., but that if he has never done it before he might have some trouble and make it real tough to tape and finish. He figures he can save some money and do it himself.

Next I ask him if he ever got that roof repaired. He tells me he did and the guys did a terrible job but its ok because it's a flat roof and you can't really see it from the outside. So I ask why didn't you call my roofer? Oh his price was too high. Oh ok, so instead you went with the cheap guy and got a crap job. Sounds about right.

Then we talk about the entry and storm door he had installed by Home Depot. Explains that the door doesn't close properly and neither does the storm, but that he thinks if he had the installers back to fix it they would just screw it up even more,

So basically, everything he has paid to have done, he's gone with the lowest price and gotten a crap job and complained. Everything he has done himself, he has screwed up and convinced himself its fine. So how does this relate to trades people being looked down upon?

People like my friend have this idea that because we work with our hands and get dirty, we are basically doing grunt work that any ape could do. A lot of his questions when he's trying to determine if he could do something himself are, well it can't be that hard, right? It's the attitude that skilled labor doesn't take much skill, this strange devalue of a persons biggest investment, their house, and the reinforcement in these people's minds that skilled labor is not skilled by so many trades people working for peanuts fighting for scraps. And as was mentioned above a big contribution to that is big box stores that thrive on the DIY and the DIY shows that make people believe that yes, building a house is so easy a caveman could do it.

It sickens me talking to him. I tell him that he's making a mistake and its not as easy as it looks. I explain to him everything involved in doing the job right to which he always replies, I'm not doing all that I just want it done cheap. Well then don't complain to me when it looks like crap.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
44,117 Posts
Next time he asks you if he thinks he can do this or that be honest and tell him, "Nope, I think that's beyond your skill level"

And see what he says. See if you can get him to admit that anyone can do it because it's only working with your hands, how hard can it be?

And if you are really feeling playful start picking apart the work he did that he said no one would notice and tell him all the things that you notice.

Might be fun. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
83 Posts
Not saying that I agree or disagree with the common core, that most states have bought into, never the less, in Ohio it states collage and career readiness. This is what they are gearing students for.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,818 Posts
One that comes to mind was a college professor....she called me out for using delta "T"s in solving equations, and with a ton of sarcasm, said this isn't vo-tech, this is college, and we don't use trade school math......I asked her straight up what she had against trade schools or vocational technical schools.....and she didn't answer...so I asked her if she earned more then the plumber she had to call to her house the day before. But she did not call me out again....and I had to earn the grades......thankfully, math is not a subjective grade.

Many, many times, the nuts and bolts guys will still have work when the suits are hitting the unemployment line because they were downsized....my son knows that working construction saved his life and feeds his kids....if a guy wants to make fun of him or or the crews we work with because we are inferior in some way, they better do it from the safety of distance, or it could get dangerous.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
One that comes to mind was a college professor....she called me out for using delta "T"s in solving equations, and with a ton of sarcasm, said this isn't vo-tech, this is college, and we don't use trade school math......I asked her straight up what she had against trade schools or vocational technical schools.....and she didn't answer...so I asked her if she earned more then the plumber she had to call to her house the day before. But she did not call me out again....and I had to earn the grades......thankfully, math is not a subjective grade.

Many, many times, the nuts and bolts guys will still have work when the suits are hitting the unemployment line because they were downsized....my son knows that working construction saved his life and feeds his kids....if a guy wants to make fun of him or or the crews we work with because we are inferior in some way, they better do it from the safety of distance, or it could get dangerous.
Amen brother
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
902 Posts
Give it a few more years, we're making a name for ourselves...I mean, as long as we can keep the government agencies off our back, and the hack jobs shown on TV off the air...we'll see changes. I mean...high end plumbers/electricians/masons/framers around here are charging $50-80/hour...anyone who's looking down on you, make sure it's ok that they're not making more than $100k a year and see who's bringing in the bacon!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
498 Posts
We should never look down on tradesmen or tradeswoman. We are needed as much as we need doctors, teachers, cops, etc... If we didn't have building contractors, who would repair things when they break down or build new buildings? People have some strange mindset that anyone in construction thinks they are better then everyone else, are bums because they didn't get a formal education, pigs because its a bit if a dirty job you got to admit that one.

BUilding I am in. Everyone on the builders crew, the one I am having issues with, all have a problem with tradesman. They think that tradesman think they are better then everyone.

Long story short people are what is ruining our trades.
 

·
diplomat
Joined
·
5,292 Posts
Can't we all just get along? I made a lot of friends in college. Most, of course, went into non labor jobs, but we all have a great deal of respect for each other. Honestly I think I see more disrespect on our side towards the people in suits. We all make the world go round.

Maybe Alaska is just different. Seems like most people know how to work with their hands regardless of their career.
 
1 - 20 of 140 Posts
Top