[NYCB]

That's collusion. Something I wouldn't recommend admitting to in an open forum.

Not when there is multiple bidders, it's me saying "He man, are you bidding this one? I don't have time for it".

Then pricing myself off the job to give him a better chance.

No one is forced to accept either bid. Want to talk about some shady ****, how about woman and minority owned businesses that can bid way higher and still end up getting the job so the GC can meet the WBE percentage requirements.

You sound extra sensitive about other business owners pricing how they want. If you think you know what something should cost, contact your subs with the budget and ask which one can meet it.

 

[Kingcarpenter1]

And, they are charging triple now. Whoever isn’t is leaving way too much on the table


Mike

 

[NYCB]

When I first started out I learned real quick that the high-ballers didn’t know what they were doing, not the other way around. Good subs know what to charge, they don’t guess.

If they are new guys though, it's better for them to not get a job due to being way high than to come in way under and both lose their ass and put a hurt on the whole job potentially because they can't or won't finish it.

It also depends on what they are used to. If they have been bidding a lot of state work with prevailing wage, it can be a big shock to go back to bidding normal work, the costs associated are totally different worlds.

 

[Fishindude]

That's entirely incorrect. Clearly you didn't read or understand what I posted.
Material and labor increases are a normal and expected part of doing business. Increasing prices when you're busy is also a normal and expected part of operations. But like everything, it can be done to excess.
A sub is welcome to ask any amount he wants, and I'm welcome to add his name to the list of subs to never bother calling when his numbers have no relation to reality.
My entire point here is that the fellow wasted everyone's time. He knew I was a GC, he knew I've been in business for decades. He should have simply said "not interested". Instead he chose to present himself as a fellow that doesn't understand his business.

You are making a lot of assumptions about a sub.
Maybe he quoted exactly what he needs to do the job profitably?
Maybe he was using different components or material?
Maybe he pays his guys 3X what your regular subs do?
Maybe he thought you were wasting his time, so he just shot a high number your way to get it off his desk and you out of his life?

Have you ever considered talking to him rather than griping about it on an internet forum?
It's never good policy to burn bridges with subs or suppliers. You might need those guys sometime in the future.

 

[NYCB]

You are making a lot of assumptions about a sub.
Maybe he quoted exactly what he needs to do the job profitably?
Maybe he was using different components or material?
Maybe he pays his guys 3X what your regular subs do?
Maybe he thought you were wasting his time, so he just shot a high number your way to get it off his desk and you out of his life?

Have you ever considered talking to him rather than griping about it on an internet forum?
It's never good policy to burn bridges with subs or suppliers. You might need those guys sometime in the future.

Maybe he knows that the GC is a pain in the ass and priced it accordlingly for having to deal with him the whole job.

 

[Pounder]

Not when there is multiple bidders, it's me saying "He man, are you bidding this one? I don't have time for it".

Then pricing myself off the job to give him a better chance.

No one is forced to accept either bid. Want to talk about some shady ****, how about woman and minority owned businesses that can bid way higher and still end up getting the job so the GC can meet the WBE percentage requirements.

You sound extra sensitive about other business owners pricing how they want. If you think you know what something should cost, contact your subs with the budget and ask which one can meet it.

I don't care what anyone charges. I do care about what I have to pay, and I do get annoyed when the numbers are absurd. Why go through the motions? I'm easy to work for, I pay promptly, all I expect is a competent job at a price that's within the realm of sane.

 

[Kingcarpenter1]

As a G.C. I realize @ the top of the market boom, prices on everything are steadily climbing. As a sub on the other hand, I’m gonna get what I can while I can. It’s happening everywhere. Prices that were a year or two ago are no longer. I know where my subs prices need to be in this historic market. I also know where my comm. prices as a sub stand. It’s the new age get over it


Mike

 

[NYCB]

I don't care what anyone charges.

You care enough to complain online about it.

Again, you aren't paying. The customer is.

If you've already bid the job without getting prices from your subs, that's a you problem, not a sub problem.

 

[NYCB]

As a sub on the other hand, I’m gonna get what I can while I can.

Preach.

If you can't make money this year, you never will.

I'm trying to put back as much as possible for the next time things slow down. The only thing I don't own outright right now is my truck, but I want to go into it completely debt free and with enough stuff to continue being able to work even though slow times.

 

[Jaws]

When I first started out I learned real quick that the high-ballers didn’t know what they were doing, not the other way around. Good subs know what to charge, they don’t guess.

My experience as well. Both of electricians A&B team, one of my plumbers (A team) and my HVAC contractor are top 5% in our market for pricing I'd bet, and I talk to a lot of builders. A 4k sq ft under roof house I'm spending 10-12k more electrical alone than a lot of builders

But you know, I can estimate both electricians and the plumbers number within a small delta myself- they are very consistent. Both A teams have zero drama, are easy and clean to work with and don't need supervision or guidance. Total pros.

Hvac guy is a little harder to estimate - he looks at each job differently than the last and uses different equipment for different projects. If it's 2500 sq ft rancher easy to estimate him, if it's a 3 story town house remodel - I threw a high number in for the ball park thinking he'd be less and he are it all up using 4 mini splits (one ducted) with one condesor and a wifi app to control them individually. It was the best way to combat hot/cold zones and control humidity. He included high end thermostatic exhaust fans to draw air into bathrooms from the wall mounted units

 

[Kingcarpenter1]

I'm trying to put back as much as possible for the next time things slow down

And we know that will be here soon enough


Mike

 

[Kingcarpenter1]

If we had an idea of what the job consisted of, I’m sure it would shed more light for the 4th time


Mike

 

[Jaws]

And, they are charging triple now. Whoever isn’t is leaving way too much on the table


Mike

I dont see any subs charging triple here to me or other builders, If a foundation would of been 45,000 in early 2020 it'd probably 65-70k now, not 135k. Plumbing and electric are up about 50%. Masons are the same, stucco is up about a buck a ft, tile labor is slightly higher. Drywall is up about 20%, spray foam 40%. Painting is up about a buck a ft

As said above no one's business what someone charges but if it's triple probably some pretty good competiton who will swoop in and take the marketshare that sub that's triple charging builders bring to the party.

Small projects can be triple for sure. Paid 5k for 3 rock columns the other day 😆. A single shower for an amigo was about 50% higher than normal but I dont blame him it's one shower when he's usually getting 2-6 showers, multiple backsplashes, floors etc... from me

 

[Kingcarpenter1]

Talking comm. Know many subs that are up that much but definitely not all. But, all are much higher than1 - 2 years ago region depending. You wouldn’t beleive what framers are getting in Atlanta





Mike

 

[480sparky]

If you sat down in a McDonalds and noticed that a big mac was $25 would you pay it or go elsewhere?

What if the hamburgers were $25 at Wendy's, Burger King and Carl Jrs?

That's entirely incorrect. Clearly you didn't read or understand what I posted.
Material and labor increases are a normal and expected part of doing business. Increasing prices when you're busy is also a normal and expected part of operations. But like everything, it can be done to excess.

It's one thing to increase your price because all your costs,.. across the board,... go up due to inflation. It's another thing entirely when ONE line item in your CODBs goes up by a factor of 6. It's something apparently you cannot fathom.

I've explained it to you. I can't make you understand it. Maybe some day, the light will come on. Until then, fare thee well.

 

[hdavis]

And here I'm sitting on 250' rolls of 10, 12, 14 GA wire, and no use in sight.

No electricians in sight, either.

 

[Leo G]

That's collusion. Something I wouldn't recommend admitting to in an open forum.

No that's not collusion. Collusion is where two companies get together and decide that this is the price that they'll charge so that no matter where you go it's the same price. In this scenario the person buying the services has a choice, chose the lower or the higher or none at all. In the collusion version no matter where they went it's the same price and usually above what it should be.

 

[Pounder]

No that's not collusion. Collusion is where two companies get together and decide that this is the price that they'll charge so that no matter where you go it's the same price. In this scenario the person buying the services has a choice, chose the lower or the higher or none at all. In the collusion version no matter where they went it's the same price and usually above what it should be.

https://www.justice.gov/atr/file/810261/download

The pivotal point is that contractor A doesn't know what contractor B is charging. When they share that information it's collusion.

 

[Kingcarpenter1]

When osb went from $10. To $50. did you ask the vendor why they bothered? Anybody that knows anything about business is doing the same. You wanna state what the bid consisted of now


Mike

 

[hdavis]

Complementary Bidding:
Complementary bidding (also known as
“cover” or “courtesy” bidding) occurs
when some competitors agree to submit
bids that either are too high to be accepted
or contain special terms that will not be
acceptable to the buyer. Such bids are not
intended to secure the buyer’s acceptance,
but are merely designed to give the
appearance of genuine competitive
bidding. Complementary bidding schemes
are the most frequently occurring forms of
bid rigging, and they defraud purchasers
by creating the appearance of competition
to conceal secretly inflated prices.