Sunrise?

 

You know the drill, he didn't want the job.

 

He should have said that, I would have given him a shot at the next one. That won't happen now.

 

You asked for a bid and got one. Can't blame the guy for trying. Plywood was $100 a sheet last month. Everyone is trying to figure out the price that the market will bear right now. And the old dogs remember that when things are really good you shouldn't get too excited; they'll get bad again. So right now is the time to do the gettin'.

Goldenview didn't like my prices last month. Told me he'd get back to me later. Came back a week later and the time was sold at the rate I quoted. Next year I might be calling him asking if he needs some work done and he can beat down my price then.

If you got the gear and the men this summer its time to get paid.

 

You asked for a bid and got one. Can't blame the guy for trying. Plywood was $100 a sheet last month. Everyone is trying to figure out the price that the market will bear right now. And the old dogs remember that when things are really good you shouldn't get too excited; they'll get bad again. So right now is the time to do the gettin'.

Goldenview didn't like my prices last month. Told me he'd get back to me later. Came back a week later and the time was sold at the rate I quoted. Next year I might be calling him asking if he needs some work done and he can beat down my price then.

If you got the gear and the men this summer its time to get paid.

It's called price gouging. Since not a lot of work was going on last year, people put off home improvement projects. Trump then screwed up our trade agreements and materials acquisition became an issue. Once vaccines came out, people were feeling better and everybody got busy again, but the backlog has grown, so now it's a free for all. We'll remember who was doing the gouging when the bubble bursts again and the whining resumes. We see you. Since the window is closing again due to a new COVID variant and the man-children among us are refusing to get vaccinated, we'll be back at square one. If the backlog is too great, just be honest and tell people you're swamped and can't do it. Using this as an excuse to gouge other working people just like yourselves makes for bad business and enemies for life. The arrogance on top of that isn't endearing either. Personally compiling lists of decent guys making good pay, doing great work, and keeping them in my contacts. They've got our business for life. The get rich quick bros will be standing out in the cold sooner rather than later.

 

I'm pretty sure goldenview is still looking for quality, so it isn't like just any sub will do.

 

Just received a bid from a sub, $50k for what is in reality a $20k project. ...

... At the price he wanted I could have purchased all of the tools, equipment, and material to do the job, hired tradesmen at $100 an hour each to do the work, and still come out ahead....

More to the point... why do YOU bother to solicit bids if it's that easy to turn a profit?

 

Probably he can't charge himself $50k for a $20k job.

 

Everybody’s taking advantage of an on fire market shooting for what they can get. Common action @ the top of a boom. They could care less if awarded or not. I ‘m bidding triple on comm. compared to 1 1/2 years ago. Everybody I know is. Hell, look @ material costs. No science here. Chit setting still because nobody can get to it. It will flop soon enough. That’s when the remember when factor comes in


Mike

 

With the high cost of everything, the unacceptable delays on materials. Getting part of the job done only to be stopped because you can't get something that's required to get to the next stage of the project.... All that costs tons of money and extra time that can't be calculated.

 

That's why I quit doing fixed bids. I prefer stipulated sum (fixed ), always have because less BS, but impossible to keep up with pricing changes and it takes litterally twice as much management now

Some of the smaller fixed houses we have going and just finished I'd be happy if I grossed 50k a piece on, probably 11-12% tops. I had material escalation clauses but for a lot of reasons didn't engage those clauses much. One house, 600k for my part, they paid septic and driveaay/landscaping - I should of grossed 100k on the builder fee and about another 30k in additional GP from foundation, framing, cornice, trim and cabinet labor since we did that under our own banner.

Framing package was 27k over what it was when I signed in December, spray foam was 8k higher (closed cell went up 40% over night), interior doors and trim about 7k over, cabinet materials 4k, rebar for concrete was about 1,500 more than estimated. Historically we average a very small variance in our gross margins- thats an 8% variance on that projects value, 38% of my gross profit.... but I can live with building a 600k house for 85k or so in a pandemic pricing climate and lessons learned - another similar house was 470k contract, simple home and not what we typically build. I subbed foundation, framing, cabinets. Our guys flashed everything, set withdraws and door and trimmed, did porch ceiling. Not much profit on labor for that, maybe 10k if that. Simple house, near some of our work, figured easy deal but low budget. I figured to gross 80k which pays for supervision, overhead, travel time, etc... not enough but for a six month build near other work, easy to run,, not many details? Chit I'll take it...... but it had similar issues cost wise, and the windows went up 5k from time of estimate besides framing, sheet goods, spray foam etc... as well as copper etc... I figure I built it for 40k, which pretty much sucks balls. Considering overhead is 50-65% of my fees I built it for less than free, no net profit and other jobs carried its overhead

 

I get you on why waste the time aspect and we all need to vent, but like @sparehair said it's not always time to bring in the hay. Free market trade rules is get all they'll pay for it, hoss. The reality is he probably gets one in 5 of those jobs and is making great money

I personally haven't jacked my labor prices up, and on cost plus builds am still at 20% mark up. We all have our line and I know where mine is for cost vs what value I bring

 

You clearly missed the meaning of "free market." In the long run, the consumers you're trying to fleece will have the last word, as in NO. You see, a free market includes the people you're scamming. Fair wages, fair dealing, fair price or compete yourself right out of the market. THAT'S how he free market works.

 

How’s golden view?

Haven’t seen him around in a Minute or two.

 

Could be cranky due to subs, materials, lead times.....

 

Funny, I was scratching my head some if building a deck would still fit ~2.5X materials, and it sounds like it could.

 

Just received a bid from a sub, $50k for what is in reality a $20k project. It looks to me like the fellow is looking to clear $5k per day profit off of a three man crew. Why bother wasting your time driving out to look at the job, then writing an estimate that you know is going to get tossed in the garbage? The guy knew I was a GC, and it's pretty obvious I've been around the horn a time or two, is it just the hope that I'm stupid or desperate?
It annoys me in that it was a waste of my time even talking to the guy. At the price he wanted I could have purchased all of the tools, equipment, and material to do the job, hired tradesmen at $100 an hour each to do the work, and still come out ahead.

I'm through ranting now. I wonder what's going to piss me off tomorrow?

Did you ask him? Maybe he's dyslexic and thought the 5 was a 2... ya' never know...

 

I've told this here before but there is a framer here I used to work with that I sub to sometimes and I got a bid from him a few years ago and it was some crazy price, he's always high but especially that day. I said Damn man are you mad at me?? Lol

Je said I'm trying to feel bad during you here but you could always do it yourself if you didn't forget how.

He knew I needed it done and couldn't do it and priced it like that, and he got it lol

 

I've told this here before but there is a framer here I used to work with that I sub to sometimes and I got a bid from him a few years ago and it was some crazy price, he's always high but especially that day. I said Damn man are you mad at me?? Lol

Je said I'm trying to feel bad during you here but you could always do it yourself if you didn't forget how.

He knew I needed it done and couldn't do it and priced it like that, and he got it lol

He wouldn't be getting it from me. Fairness is a two-way street. Ultimately, these creeps are gouging single-family homeowners, many of whom aren't exatly yanking bills off the money tree. It's especially galling when we're out in support of labor (because we are alos labor, but in different industries) only to end up with spit on our faces. What goes around, comes around. Be decent or be gone.

 

Funny, HOs are telling me they can't get a call back from any electrician. It has been that way for months.

 

I’m up in Oregon right now visiting family, and my MIL and her BF told me they want some electrical work done at their place over in central Oregon and can’t get anyone for 4 months. 👍

Im 3 hours away and on vacation. I’m not doing it. 🤣

I told him “don’t hire the guy that says he can show up tomorrow. There a a reason he’s not busy”. 😳🤣

 

Just received a bid from a sub, $50k for what is in reality a $20k project. It looks to me like the fellow is looking to clear $5k per day profit off of a three man crew. Why bother wasting your time driving out to look at the job, then writing an estimate that you know is going to get tossed in the garbage? The guy knew I was a GC, and it's pretty obvious I've been around the horn a time or two, is it just the hope that I'm stupid or desperate?
It annoys me in that it was a waste of my time even talking to the guy. At the price he wanted I could have purchased all of the tools, equipment, and material to do the job, hired tradesmen at $100 an hour each to do the work, and still come out ahead.

I'm through ranting now. I wonder what's going to piss me off tomorrow?

Hard to say without all the details, but it could just be that in this climate he’s only taking on the jobs he can make a killing on, even if he loses quite a few along the way.

Not my business model, but some folks play that game.

 

It's a short sited game. Eventually you have a reputation for over charging.

 

It's supply and demand. We know material cost is nuts. There's a labor shortage. No one seems to know when a job will start. Sure, you want to start next week, but do you have the permit? Oh, the site guy can't get there next week, so we are all pushed back a week. Yeah, that's nothing totally out of the ordinary, but when you have limited manpower, it makes it tough to reschedule. When things are going nuts, like now, the subs are in control. When the workload slows down, the Owner/GC is back in control.

 

I know my shop is the most expensive in the area by at least 60%.

The only other custom shop can’t do what we do. The first job I did out here was because they could not do two color doors and drawer faces.

You want insets without have 3” between the door and drawer faces were it.

I was at a customers yesterday, she did a hybrid for her cabinets, her regret, they didn’t go with us for all their case work. The other shop won’t come back and take care of the little things that’s need to be done. Her sister in law did the same thing, her cabinets we that didn’t do are falling apart after 2 years.

If a customer wants something, I’ll figure out how to get it done. The cost will reflect this ability.

One of the cabinets I delivered today is 16’ long, weighed about 400 pounds. The island for the same house would have barley fit through the 6’ front door, but you’d need 10 guys to lift it over the plumbing. It was fully assembled here, indexed, disassembled, delivered with everything needed for reassembly.

I have no problem when someone tells me we’re expensive.

Tom

 

I know my shop is the most expensive in the area by at least 60%.

The only other custom shop can’t do what we do. The first job I did out here was because they could not do two color doors and drawer faces.

You want insets without have 3” between the door and drawer faces were it.

I was at a customers yesterday, she did a hybrid for her cabinets, her regret, they didn’t go with us for all their case work. The other shop won’t come back and take care of the little things that’s need to be done. Her sister in law did the same thing, her cabinets we that didn’t do are falling apart after 2 years.

If a customer wants something, I’ll figure out how to get it done. The cost will reflect this ability.

One of the cabinets I delivered today is 16’ long, weighed about 400 pounds. The island for the same house would have barley fit through the 6’ front door, but you’d need 10 guys to lift it over the plumbing. It was fully assembled here, indexed, disassembled, delivered with everything needed for reassembly.

I have no problem when someone tells me we’re expensive.

Tom

Hi end custom work commands a high price. The job I had bids on was stucco, and the house they have to match is poorly done, lumpy, junk. It was a lousy job when it was put on eighty years ago.
I could have stripped the entire house and put on Hardiplank for what he wanted to do the patchwork.

 

Yep, 2 colors.... no problem.

And making a run of cabinets that look like they are one.

Been there, done that.

You're the best Tom

 

at figuring out supply and demand.....

(people who own the 2 tones pictured are crying about the cabinet cost for their pool house cabinets, they want RSWO insets throughout with a floating island in the kitchenette area, their builder has spent 6 weeks looking for someone to create them cheeper than us......)

Tom

 

A job I would have bid for $20k two years ago I would not hesitate to go to $50k. After all, wire has gone up 6x. So what's 20k x6?

 

That's a good thing if your market is willing to pay the price. All of my electric is done in house, so I'm not up to speed on what anyone else is charging. I know what my material and labor will cost, add my P&O and that's the number.

 

So what did the bid consist of


Mike

 

It looks to me like the fellow is looking to clear $5k per day profit off of a three man crew. At the price he wanted I could have purchased all of the tools, equipment, and material to do the job, hired tradesmen at $100 an hour each to do the work, and still come out ahead.

Pounder:

I had a woman customer tell me I was charging $400.00 per hour. So what? You signed the deal. You could have gotten someone else; you didn't.

How much money this guy clears in a day with a three man crew is absolutely none of your business.

If you can buy the tools and materials and hire the guys at a hundred an hour, have at it, but don't whine because someone was courteous enough to dignify you with a proposal.

 

Pounder:

I had a woman customer tell me I was charging $400.00 per hour. So what? You signed the deal. You could have gotten someone else; you didn't.

How much money this guy clears in a day with a three man crew is absolutely none of your business.

If you can buy the tools and materials and hire the guys at a hundred an hour, have at it, but don't whine because someone was courteous enough to dignify you with a proposal.

It absolutely is my business when I'm paying the bill. I'd also note that he didn't "dignify" me with an estimate, he tried to gouge the crap out of me.
Simple question for you. Why don't you increase prices 250% tomorrow morning? You'd make a lot more money, be able to give your crew a nice pay raise, maybe retire early. What's holding you back?

 

My problem usually arises that we want three scratches coats, 1 1/8" or so. Often have to do wall corner to corner for thst with all these hack stucco jobs here

 

Got a sub quote on repairing stucco on a poor stucco job. He'd only take it all off and start from scratch. I'm pretty sure he didn't want to match what was there.

 

Sorry, but a high subcontractor quote is not something you are going to get a lot of sympathy pi$$ing and moaning about.
If you are such an expert on the matter, and know what it should cost, do the work yourself.

If you really want something to pi4$ and moan about, hire a subcontractor for a big job that priced his work too low. I'll guarantee you that will give you a whole lot more trouble.

 

Again, what did the bid consist of


Mike