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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I poured a sidewalk for the church in town last summer and got a call that it had some holes in it.

I found this in two joints when I got there.





There is also something similar but slightly smaller in the same area, and of course the classic spot at the edge where the plow blade smashed into it.

I really don't know what caused it though, based on the walkway I tore out they use tons of salt, and we had an extra crappy winter this year so I imagine they were really piling it on. My first guess was someone may have gone after it with pry bar during one of the ice storms we had, but who knows.

I poured it in two sections and I do remember that section going in slightly wetter, but it was still very creamy and finished just fine.

I have seen stuff like that happen after years, but to see it after one winter seems very odd. I am not even sure if it can be fixed, or what product to even use.

Any body have any ideas for me, because I am drawing a blank.
 

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It's from the salt...Also how deep did you groove it? It looks kinda shallow, should be 1/4 of the slab depth. So for 4" walk it should be a 1" deep groove.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I used a brand new brass groover, well, it is only a season old. It is probably about an inch deep, they are all filled with crap already though.

I talked to my grandfather who goes there every week, he said they use plain old rock salt instead of calcium.

We had so many days below freezing and near zero I bet the rock salted water went through a ton of freeze thaw cycles. Shame too, it was really nice when I finished it. A former employer told me to pressure wash it and try to source some redline, slap it in the bad spot and it it with a steel groover to feather it out.
 

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Worth a shot.... I'd probably just take a cupping blade with the grinder and clean it up and call it a day.... A patch is going to pop again next winter :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This is why we can't have nice things around here.

I'm moving to Arkansas.
 

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Love me some Concrete
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I tell my customers, absolutely no salt for 2 winters or it will void my warranty. It is just too hard on new, let alone older concrete. Tell them to use a bunch of sand instead. Can you use a bonding agent before adding the patch? I have not used it before but heard good things from others.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I tell my customers, absolutely no salt for 2 winters or it will void my warranty. It is just too hard on new, let alone older concrete. Tell them to use a bunch of sand instead. Can you use a bonding agent before adding the patch? I have not used it before but heard good things from others.
NY only mandates a one year warranty, but I might add a line for salt and concrete to my contract now. I have done loads of sidewalk and most of it that I drive by looks brand new still, I always tell people no salt, I think most of them listen too.

Here is what it looked like when I left them with it. The plow really did a number on the front edge this winter too.

 

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Salt use voids any type of warranty with me regardless of age. Educate them first, demand their acknowledgement, then kindly remind them of that when you get calls like this.

Prosoco make a good chloride screen, Salt Guard PD. You should be adding the option to your customers who use deicers. Good for your bottom line as well ;)
 

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Whether anyone wants to believe it or not, extensive testing continually shows that plain old rock salt is as safe, or safer, than most other common de-icers, including CC. Think about how many tons of salt are "poured" on new concrete bridges/roads/curbs by municipalities every winter, and how they hold up from it.

Considering the damage in the pictures, it looks like you may have had a lot of cream at the joints when placed. If it was relatively hard and you used water to slick the "picture framed" joints in after the broom, that certainly would be susceptable to damage as well........
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Whether anyone wants to believe it or not, extensive testing continually shows that plain old rock salt is as safe, or safer, than most other common de-icers, including CC. Think about how many tons of salt are "poured" on new concrete bridges/roads/curbs by municipalities every winter, and how they hold up from it.

Considering the damage in the pictures, it looks like you may have had a lot of cream at the joints when placed. If it was relatively hard and you used water to slick the "picture framed" joints in after the broom, that certainly would be susceptable to damage as well........
That would have been my first guess too, but I remember pouring it and it went just as smooth as it could have, no water to slick them either, I learned my lesson about that years ago after some spalling.

After reading about it though it seems that regular salt lowers the freezing temp of water to 25, and I can see how that would have screwed me this year.

We had many days in the high 20's with nights down to zero. If the water was migrating into the joints during the day and freezing at night it might have started to pop I think.

I was honestly scratching my head about it though until I showed the pictures to my friend. He said with the landscaping like it is down there the water can't pitch like it should and probably gets trapped in the joints, and I am positive that the mix was good, it came out cool and took it's time setting up.
 

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I tell my customers, absolutely no salt for 2 winters or it will void my warranty. It is just too hard on new, let alone older concrete. Tell them to use a bunch of sand instead. Can you use a bonding agent before adding the patch? I have not used it before but heard good things from others.
Absolutely true and necessary to tell customers this. Can't expect them to know new concrete doesn't like salt. Easy to forget to tell them but very important that one does not forget this
My gramps would always say kitty litter works good too. Depends if u like cats or not..
 
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