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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello my name is Vince and I am a custom cabinet maker/woodworker in Ny State.

I have a potential master bath renovation coming up that is located on the second floor of the home. It will be a total gut out.

Since I normally only do the cabinetry/millwork portions of a project,
my normal cabinetry /millwork contract states that I will take precautions to not cause damages however, I will will not be held liable for any minimal damage to paint, wall covering, or floors during installation.

Question: Who is generally responsible for minor damages to walls and floors of access areas leading to the room during a major renovation such as this?

The client wants a line added to my contract making me responsible before he signs.


If this were just a cabinet job I would not be concerned about the likelihood of damaging anything, however because of the nature of this project and the fact that subs will be used by both me and the homeowner (who is hiring his own tile guy and painter) the likelihood of minor damage is pretty high and might be created by his own subs.

Thoughts please.

Thanks
 

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Hello my name is Vince and I am a custom cabinet maker/woodworker in Ny State.

I have a potential master bath renovation coming up that is located on the second floor of the home. It will be a total gut out.

Since I normally only do the cabinetry/millwork portions of a project,
my normal cabinetry /millwork contract states that I will take precautions to not cause damages however, I will will not be held liable for any minimal damage to paint, wall covering, or floors during installation.

Question: Who is generally responsible for minor damages to walls and floors of access areas leading to the room during a major renovation such as this?

The client wants a line added to my contract making me responsible before he signs.


If this were just a cabinet job I would not be concerned about the likelihood of damaging anything, however because of the nature of this project and the fact that subs will be used by both me and the homeowner (who is hiring his own tile guy and painter) the likelihood of minor damage is pretty high and might be created by his own subs.

Thoughts please.

Thanks
Thats like saying im not responsible for minor damage to your truck if i run my truck down the side of it by accident.

If you damage property no matter how small the damage is your responsibility.
 

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mindmapping it all!
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you need to walk the job with the homeowner while informing where you will be putting construction walkways down and look for noticeable existing ding bang booms and point them out and show them. a video will show later what was what. you also need to inform them in writing that their subs will be responsible for their mess ups, not you. you are responsible for your subs only in that situation- ideally, but subs usually do not fess up to mess ups and it is left to the contractor most times.
 

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Radical Basement Dweller
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I think you need to add a clause to your contract that yes, you will be responsible for any damage you create, but not what others create.

I would take lots of pictures of the entire area where you will be coming and going and working. I have even gone so far as to have the customer accompany me while taking pictures to view any damage that exists already. Doing this I think tends to let the customer know that it's going to be tough blaming you for something you didn't do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Pinwheel and BC,

I guess you did not read my entire post? There are other subs that will be hired by the homeowner that I do not want to be responsible for and that's why I needed to ask this question. Maybe the title is misleading.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the advice Hand Drive, Robie.
Normally I take pics before, but walking it with the homeowner at the same time is a good idea.
 

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Thanks for the advice Hand Drive, Robie.
Normally I take pics before, but walking it with the homeowner at the same time is a good idea.
I read it. Basically your trying to pass any damage onto someone elses back for you not to deal with. if they are your subs and they damage something its upto you and your sub to fix the issue. If the subs are the HO's subs then its not your problem.

Also beware of the subs who are not yours causing damage then saying they didnt cause it.
 

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Thanks for the advice Hand Drive, Robie.
Normally I take pics before, but walking it with the homeowner at the same time is a good idea.
Not only walk it but get them to sign off on any damage or flaws that are already there.

With pics of them.
 

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Hello my name is Vince and I am a custom cabinet maker/woodworker in Ny State.

I have a potential master bath renovation coming up that is located on the second floor of the home. It will be a total gut out.

Since I normally only do the cabinetry/millwork portions of a project,
my normal cabinetry /millwork contract states that I will take precautions to not cause damages however, I will will not be held liable for any minimal damage to paint, wall covering, or floors during installation.

Question: Who is generally responsible for minor damages to walls and floors of access areas leading to the room during a major renovation such as this?

The client wants a line added to my contract making me responsible before he signs.


If this were just a cabinet job I would not be concerned about the likelihood of damaging anything, however because of the nature of this project and the fact that subs will be used by both me and the homeowner (who is hiring his own tile guy and painter) the likelihood of minor damage is pretty high and might be created by his own subs.

Thoughts please.

Thanks
Pinwheel and BC,

I guess you did not read my entire post? There are other subs that will be hired by the homeowner that I do not want to be responsible for and that's why I needed to ask this question. Maybe the title is misleading.

The bold portion of your OP is what stood out at me & I was responding to. I dont see how you ever get anyone that reads that to sign your contract.
 

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The bold portion of your OP is what stood out at me & I was responding to. I dont see how you ever get anyone that reads that to sign your contract.
Also what is the classification of minimal. To me minimal is smaller than a fist size but to some of my HO minimal is getting a magnifying glass out to inspect for damage. Yet i could fall through a wall and some HO's would say thats ok dont worry about it.
 

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Don
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In My opinion Record on video where you will be walking, what damages are there currently, and everyday you walk in look for a new damage, record again with time so there is proof.

if the HO is playing GC and hiring there own subs and no one will own up to the minor damages then the HO is responsible for the damage.

the Point of a GC is to manage and oversee a project if the GC is MIA then its the GC fault for not seeing what happen and thats where insurance comes into play
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The contract that I normally use which is posted above is intended for larger job sites where there is a GC or architect/designer involved who I am working for and I am just one of about 10 other subs on the job.

In this scenario I want to change the contract to protect the homeowner from damages by me and my subs but not be responsible for his/her subs.

I definitely did not word this post correctly.
My fault.
 

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mindmapping it all!
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The contract that I normally use which is posted above is intended for larger job sites where there is a GC or architect/designer involved who I am working for and I am just one of about 10 other subs on the job.

In this scenario I want to change the contract to protect the homeowner from damages by me and my subs but not be responsible for his/her subs.

I definitely did not word this post correctly.
My fault.
congratulations! you are at the other end of the spectrum and will be held liable for every action. a sub can go through ducking and weaving while avoiding some responsibility but you will be the one responsible when the deal is done.
 

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The GC on the job is responsible for the overall site conditions. In the absence of a true GC, with the homeowner acting as one and not knowing what that means, it means that no one will own the problems. Which means that everyone will own the headaches. Unless you have a video camera there 24/7 during the project, you're not going to know who bumped that corner and knocked off the drywall mud. The homeowner needs to understand that before they embark down this road. "Saving money" by not hiring a GC may end up costing them money.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
@ Hand Drive Actually no. As Rotarex said the HO is acting as the GC here and not me. That's the reason I needed to start this post in the first place. If I were doing the entire job I would assume full responsibility in the contract and not be concerned about it.
 

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This can impact scheduling - you don't want your subs and the HO's subs on site ate the same time. You'll have to walk through before and after the HOs subs do work.

My biggest problem over the years has been along the lines of "Who backed their truck into the ***X and bent / busted it?".
 

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good luck, your gonna need it
 
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