There seem to be 2 schools of thought on subcontractors. Some GC's seek out subs that are charging dirt cheap prices so they can maximize their profits.

Other GCs realize that your subs need to have a successful business as well, so they are going to have to capture some markup to do this. This means that the sub is going to cost you more than you could do it in house.

I am of the ilk who believes that you get what you pay for. My business needs successful subcontractors who do excellent quality work in order to increase the volume of business that my company can handle. Even though this captures my company less markup dollars in some cases, I make up the reduced $$ per job in overall volume of work accomplished by my company.

You will almost always pay a sub more $$ to accomplish a job than it would cost you to do it in house if your in house labor is efficient at the task. If not, there is likely something wrong with the sub. The sub either does not know what to charge and is buying in to the bull**** of all the GCs that are squeezing them on price, or they cannot perform to a level of quality to be able to charge more.

 

I agree with Ruby! I work with several good GCs that see the value in using a sub. Sure they pay me more than thier own hourly guys to paint.
They do not have to pay my payroll, insurance, taxes, wc, licenses, etc.
They do not have to maintain my equipment, trucks and paint bill.
They do not have to hire and train anyone.
They do not have to stay educated on the latest industry standards.
They just have to call me with paint colors!

On where to find them, try the supply houses, talk to the managers there. homebuilders association, fellow gcs. Drive around new or custom homes, look at the work, look for clean and lettered trucks. Not sure how other GCs would feel about last one. I know in my small town, the GCs I work for will look out for me and refer me to others.

 

a builder i worked for years ago would hire quality guys that he didn't need to watch. he would show up on monday to see if you needed anything, check progress, "see ya next week". then go golfing, vacation, etc. pay a little more for less headaches and build loyalty with your subs. You'll thank yourself for being so smart!

 

Give me a call sometime and I will set you up with a few good subs, If there is anything I can handle in house and give you a fair price I'll help you out
202-636-3526 Ask For Rory

 

You pick up the phonebook, and look under the trade you need. A cabinet company. A flooring company. A tile company.

 

That doesn't help him find a good sub contractors. This area is full contractor bums. It took me almost 4 years to find and keep decent subs. I wish it was that easy. Even some of the big companies with 50 trucks on the road around here suck. There are some good subs around here and most of the small to mid size guys aren't in the phone book or on the internet.

 

Thanks for the feedback

Gentlemen (and ladies if applicable),
Thanks for the valued input. As always there is plenty of good advice on this board. Like most folks I want the best product for the least cost. Those are opposing forces I know but it brings me to another question. Is there a way, short of the trial and error of experience to know what the "market rate" for a given trade should be? I.e. What should one pay for a new construction install of nailed pre-finished 3 1/4" hardwood, or 6" ceramic wall tile in a tub or shower surround, etc. Are any of the published cost guides (means, craftsman, superbuild, etc) useful?

 

Gentlemen (and ladies if applicable),
Thanks for the valued input. As always there is plenty of good advice on this board. Like most folks I want the best product for the least cost. Those are opposing forces I know but it brings me to another question. Is there a way, short of the trial and error of experience to know what the "market rate" for a given trade should be? I.e. What should one pay for a new construction install of nailed pre-finished 3 1/4" hardwood, or 6" ceramic wall tile in a tub or shower surround, etc. Are any of the published cost guides (means, craftsman, superbuild, etc) useful?

That sounded awfully close to a HO question:whistling

 

well now that's a good quetion. if you've got a print then make some calls and get some prices. I haven't found too many books useful to get prices.(especially the ones you named.) Hometech makes a pretty good one. it's made for the remodelling trade. however, most jobs don't fit too neatly in the book catagories. remodelling has so many variables. also, you really don't know the quality of one contractor vs. another by a book price. really good subs should get paid what their worth which may be more then your book says. you 're gonna have to do some homework.

 

the better :drink:bars usually have better sub contractors

 

I have tried it both ways, cheap labor and more expensive. I have found the local home builders association directory very helpful. It tends to be more expensive upfront, but as mentioned you get what you pay for. If they have invested money in themselves by joining the association, having insurance, guarantees, and such, they seem to be more reliable and trustworthy.

 

I do own my own home but am definitely a contractor with a solid business and a serious commitment to growth and professionalism. The expertise you folks offer is invaluable. :thumbsup:

What I meant to ask was is there a correlation between cost guides and reality? I try to use my own experience with my labor and previous subs to estimate jobs but there is a lot of deviation. Does anyone use the cost guide pricing as a talking point when interviewing or hiring subs? I haven't done that yet but have a builder acquaintance that uses Means in his pricing negotiations for his subs. He has a lot more work to offer than I do so I don't think it is applicable but just wanted to ask what others think?

How about vetting subs. How to folks screen their subs? Does anyone ask for references from other contractors? What else can help weed out the outfits that might not be the best hire? I've made some bad hires (usually when I shopped on price) but just haven't subbed out enough of my work in the areas I'm interested in building subs relationships (flooring, tile, trim, stairs, painting). I've been doing my own work with my crew but want to turn my projects over much faster so that's the reason for these questions.

Thanks again.

 

The contractors that I work for find other subs through their current trusted subs. I have a builder who needed a plumber. He asked me if I worked with any good ones with my other builders. I gave him two names. One was too busy and the other now does his work. I may not be an expert at plumbing or painting but I do know who comes to work, meet deadlines, passes inspections, etc. Pricing is their business. My builders know I will only recommend quality guys and I've told them about turds to warch out for. Good luck in your search.

 

trial and error is the best way cause now you know how the shmuck looks like. You can always hold the their payment or let them go if they don't meet your standards.

 

Withholding payment can end up costing you 3x's the owed amount, here in Texas. You cannot break a contract and then withhold payment. Criminal "Theft of Services" comes to mind.