Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner
1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
General Contractor
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was stunned when I received a delivery of QD30 today and was told it is the last case of oil primer and I will never be able to get anything oil based again because all paints with paint thinner in them are now illegal. What is that all about? No one at my supply house knows why.
I am very upset.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,471 Posts
I'm in pretty tight with the local BM stores and I haven't heard anything about it.
 

·
Back from the dead...
Joined
·
6,646 Posts
Paint contractors have been talking about this for a long time. The EPA has pushed for laws concerning voc limitations.They have already changed the formulas of most all oil paints, making some of the best ones (IE B.M. Satin Impervo) rather weak. Word has been out for about 2 years now that we are to get ready and start fazing out all oil based paints. Big metro areas, like NYC and LA/calif will be hit first, then it will spread out to everyone else. Maybe take a drive down to rural Arkansas and smuggle back a trunkful of white lightning,...er..... white primer.
 

·
General Contractor
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This is terrible!!!! QD30 was the only primer we were comfortable with. We try to stick with Benjamin Moore, but if we have to go latex, Fresh Start doesnt give as nice a base as the oil. Any suggestions?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,471 Posts
OK, I've been reading about green paint. Know all about VOC's, they attacked the boat business 20 yrs. ago. over fiberglass. Bootlegging paint? Never thought of that!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,471 Posts
Pro, do you use any waterbased primers? I keep trying them and they keep sucking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
431 Posts
I started a thread on this subject on a different website. And got attacked
by 'green' painters. My take is that the government always lies to us, and makes certain things seem like they are awful horrible and downplaying other things. If I had to bet a lot of money, based on what I read, all those ranchers with their flatuent cows are putting more VOC's into the atmosphere than is physically possible by paint. (If you add up all the available mineral spirits in every can of oil paint and primer and stain on every shelf of every retail store and warehouse) It would still come up short to 'farting' cows.

I have contacted certain companies like Muralo, and they will phase out their interior semi-gloss oil paint and their exterior soft gloss oil paint. Big shame!
But will try to reformulate their exterior stains. And their exterior primer is already in conformance (sp?). So I don't think there will be a 100% removal of oil products - but there is going to be a big shift. And what most of these 'green' painters don't understand - is that some of the best latex products have some of the smelliest ingredients - Muralo will have to reformulate their 'Ultra' line of latex paints! Their paint was already awesome, will it get worse? That seems to be conclusion. Or perhaps, you can keep the quality the same - but have to raise the costs of final product due to more manufacturing costs and more costly ingredients to maintain the same quality. I am reminded of using Schreuder paints distributed from Fine paints of Europe. They sell their paint in 'Eurogallon size' which is like 2.5 litres for $90/gallon - or if you adjust the price to a real gallon it is like $133/gallon. Now that is the best quality paint with VOC's almost absent.
But it is almost dry out of the can, so you have to add water and floetrol.
But maybe that is where paint is heading - we might still get quality, but at a huge increase in price. High VOC's = quality paints at a reasonable price,
or Low VOCs = crappy paint, or high quality paint at a tremendous cost.

There is also Devoe making a water based alkyd/oil paint. They found a way to connect the oil molecule so it is immersible in water. My beef is that I had to prime a bunch of old horse hair and lath plaster walls. And no way will a latex primer stick over the long run. You need an oil primer to soak into the chaulking old plaster. Or how about more modern veneer plaster systems. If you prime the plaster after it has dried, but before it's cured {about 10 days} Then the latex primer will cure along with the wall, becoming one. But if you wait. It just never is the same again, an interior oil primer is what will soak into the pores and become one with the wall. Sheetrock doesn't need anything better than latex. But most surfaces really need oil. And not to mention, if latex was so great for priming, and deckstaining - why would we as painters choose oil products - when they are vile in comparison. We do so, because we have honor in that we are putting on a superior product.

Everyone can vouch for me on this one, but acrylic urethane clear coatings for floors - just don't hold up like their oil cousins. But maybe we should all say 'f#%k it' And just use the latex primers and deckstains and poly's. And when our customers ask if we are putting on 'quality' products - we should all just laugh in their face, and tell 'em it's crap - but Uncle Sam won't let 'em have anything better. Not to mention you can put on 3 coats of poly on a floor in a day if it's acrylic - making our wallets fatter. Or prime and topcoat a house in the same day - I can see all our bottom lines getting fatter. Because now we're all cleared from our conscience because of Government mandate. We are free to put up crap latex exterior primers and not get chided from our competition - because they have to do the same now. And houses will need recoats twice as often. We're all going to get rich! Thanks Uncle Sam, you have cleared me from my conscience of doing a conscientious and good quality job with products that take twice the time to work with and dry. I can envision applying two coats of acrylic deck stains per season now instead of one every other year - thanks. That's 4 times the money in my pocket.

-PlainPainter
 

·
Painting Contractor
Joined
·
1,881 Posts
PlainPainter said:
I started a thread on this subject on a different website. And got attacked
by 'green' painters. My take is that the government always lies to us, and makes certain things seem like they are awful horrible and downplaying other things. If I had to bet a lot of money, based on what I read, all those ranchers with their flatuent cows are putting more VOC's into the atmosphere than is physically possible by paint. (If you add up all the available mineral spirits in every can of oil paint and primer and stain on every shelf of every retail store and warehouse) It would still come up short to 'farting' cows.

I have contacted certain companies like Muralo, and they will phase out their interior semi-gloss oil paint and their exterior soft gloss oil paint. Big shame!
But will try to reformulate their exterior stains. And their exterior primer is already in conformance (sp?). So I don't think there will be a 100% removal of oil products - but there is going to be a big shift. And what most of these 'green' painters don't understand - is that some of the best latex products have some of the smelliest ingredients - Muralo will have to reformulate their 'Ultra' line of latex paints! Their paint was already awesome, will it get worse? That seems to be conclusion. Or perhaps, you can keep the quality the same - but have to raise the costs of final product due to more manufacturing costs and more costly ingredients to maintain the same quality. I am reminded of using Schreuder paints distributed from Fine paints of Europe. They sell their paint in 'Eurogallon size' which is like 2.5 litres for $90/gallon - or if you adjust the price to a real gallon it is like $133/gallon. Now that is the best quality paint with VOC's almost absent.
But it is almost dry out of the can, so you have to add water and floetrol.
But maybe that is where paint is heading - we might still get quality, but at a huge increase in price. High VOC's = quality paints at a reasonable price,
or Low VOCs = crappy paint, or high quality paint at a tremendous cost.

There is also Devoe making a water based alkyd/oil paint. They found a way to connect the oil molecule so it is immersible in water. My beef is that I had to prime a bunch of old horse hair and lath plaster walls. And no way will a latex primer stick over the long run. You need an oil primer to soak into the chaulking old plaster. Or how about more modern veneer plaster systems. If you prime the plaster after it has dried, but before it's cured {about 10 days} Then the latex primer will cure along with the wall, becoming one. But if you wait. It just never is the same again, an interior oil primer is what will soak into the pores and become one with the wall. Sheetrock doesn't need anything better than latex. But most surfaces really need oil. And not to mention, if latex was so great for priming, and deckstaining - why would we as painters choose oil products - when they are vile in comparison. We do so, because we have honor in that we are putting on a superior product.

Everyone can vouch for me on this one, but acrylic urethane clear coatings for floors - just don't hold up like their oil cousins. But maybe we should all say 'f#%k it' And just use the latex primers and deckstains and poly's. And when our customers ask if we are putting on 'quality' products - we should all just laugh in their face, and tell 'em it's crap - but Uncle Sam won't let 'em have anything better. Not to mention you can put on 3 coats of poly on a floor in a day if it's acrylic - making our wallets fatter. Or prime and topcoat a house in the same day - I can see all our bottom lines getting fatter. Because now we're all cleared from our conscience because of Government mandate. We are free to put up crap latex exterior primers and not get chided from our competition - because they have to do the same now. And houses will need recoats twice as often. We're all going to get rich! Thanks Uncle Sam, you have cleared me from my conscience of doing a conscientious and good quality job with products that take twice the time to work with and dry. I can envision applying two coats of acrylic deck stains per season now instead of one every other year - thanks. That's 4 times the money in my pocket.

-PlainPainter
Plain painter you are very misinformed. I think I will start this again here.
The stuff you refer to as quality is junk. Just because paint can hurt you
that doesn't make it good. Please read the labels: prolonged exposure
to paint thinners can cause permanent brain damage. You were not
attacked by green painters alone, I think even H.C. did not agree
with you and he is as traditional and respected as it gets in our trade.
You were defending lead in paint and that has no place in a responsible
painting contractor's discussion board, legally or moraly. Solvent based
paints are history.The alternatives have been around for a while and
they work better. Providing quality for your customers can start from
their indoor air quality. Killing their braincells is not quality, is it?
This is a public forum. Let me say this: Responsible painting
contractors read danger warnings and follow safety procedures.
If you think manufacturers are wrong about the dangers of their
products, take it up with them.
 

·
Back from the dead...
Joined
·
6,646 Posts
Teetor, our main use of oil primers was for going over previously papered walls, and sealing up bare wood. For the walls, I have been using DrawTite, from Scotch Paints in CA. For the bare wood, I still love the B-I-N, but have been using Porter's BlankIt 1129, and B.M. Fresh Start. Zinsser's 123 ain't too bad, but it seems to take a long time to fully cure, meaning I can scrape it off with a fingernail for several days after application. Nothing beats covering knots and tannin bleed better than B-I-N, if its goes away, I'll have to go back to using straight varnish.

If you haven't ever test drove DrawTite, you should. Its the bomb-diggity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,471 Posts
Never heard of DrawTite, must be a regional. I know of the rest, all of the waterbased bite.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
We use Sherwin Williams PrepRite series of primers, depending on the previous surface we are covering. For old stained lath & plaster walls I use SF-1 at 1/2 tint. Drywall, I use ProBlock or 400 at 1/2 tint. We try to get adequate ventilation, some latexs smell as bad as oil bases.
 

·
Back from the dead...
Joined
·
6,646 Posts
DrawTite is Gardz on steroids. Charles & Robert of Scotch Paints invented and developed this water-based primer/sealer several years ago. The boys at Zinnser took the product, tested it, and backed down the formulation/solids until it failed. Then they kicked it up a notch and introduced Gardz.

DrawTite is the real deal. It comes in clear, (very watery like gardz, but awesome penetration), clear no-run, (a little thicker, slightly less penetration for the whiners who couldn't handle the regular formula), and white, which is like the original clear but pigmented. When it dries, its hard and slick, like a varnish. It just plain kicks a$$. Pretty stinky, but the water clean-up is great. 4-5 bucks cheaper per gallon than gardz, any Sherwin Williams can order it.

I use it to seal garbage flat builders paint, under any w/c, any unstable surface, etc. Truly a versatile, remarkable product. Do yourself a favor and try it. I can't say enough about it.

Email Robert Naverson at [email protected], he will send you quart samples to testdrive.


The S.W. equivalent, Drywall Conditioner, doesn't even come close, it just plain sux.
 

·
Curmudgeon
Joined
·
11,706 Posts
I see you thought enough
to shout, so they could hear you....
five years ago!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,768 Posts
Boy! for Painters you guys don't keep up on what took place in September of 1999? the EPA band all Acetone, they told paint manufactures that as of September of 1999 the EPA would not let them make any more Acetone, cause of VOC and Acetone which is your main ingredient in oil base products across the board, that means all oil base paints, varnishs, stains, floor varnishs, anything that was made with Acetone will now be made with WATER:laughing: Yeah that'll hold up:rolleyes: so over the years as all the Acetone that was stock piled runs out all the oil base products will be gone and never to return, cause people don't like the smell of oil base paints:laughing:
So the EPA is putting your paint jobs at a lower standard:thumbsup: but yet your to Guarantee to your customers your work:clap:
Just more Government Invasion of our everyday lifes:thumbup::laughing:
Let's a big shout out for the Great and wonderful EPA:censored:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,768 Posts
Plain Painter the next time you have plaster walls to prime ry BM's Latex Block Filler, it will soak into the plaster and bond with it, I have found that using it on my plaster repairs it gives you stipple on your repairs so they don't jump out at you after you paint, cause the new plaster is smooth and the areas around your repair has years of paint stipple built up. The Block Filler is like marshmellow fluff, just don't back roll it once you apply it. cause it will come off in sheets, it has to soak in and it drys in 20 minutes:thumbsup: Just make sure you roll it on even so you don't get heavy stipple cause it will then need to be sanded out which isn't a bigh deal. use a pole sander with 80 grit paper:thumbsup:
Good luck
 

·
Curmudgeon
Joined
·
11,706 Posts
Frank, look at the dates.
They said the world ended
five years ago.
This thread is from February, 2005.
 

·
topsail's trimcat
Joined
·
5,026 Posts
hmm interesting, i did hear yesterday that there will be a large scale paint shortage very shortly though.

it has to do with the oil spill in the gulf. apparently a chemical in the binding agent in paint works extremely well in oil cleanup so DOW and a couple other companys who make the binding agent are going to be shipping it to the gulf to help with the oil cleanup. so with this shortage of the binding agent paint companys wont be able to make nearly as much paint as they have been
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top