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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
According the the installation instructions for the shingles (Certainteed), the starter row is supposed to be a regular shingle with the bottom 5" cut off (or you can buy them pre-cut like this).

I spoke to the contractor before hiring him, and asked if they install according to the manufacturer's instructions. I also specifically asked about the starter course. He said that's the only way they install. They buy the special starter shingles, and install according to the manufacturer's instructions.

That's all well and good, but the crew that did the work didn't do this. They just used a regular, full shingle, upside down.

Since this is not in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, it puts the warranty at risk.

I also suspect they didn't apply Winterguard where they said they would (the entire rear dormer) and they didn't add soffit vents. He also said they'd remove the siding so they could get the Winterguard up the side there too, but I have seen no evidence of this. The drip edge is the wrong color (silver instead of white) and they didn't replace the vent pipe flanges.



Here's some pictures. Please let me know if you see anything wrong.







How much of this a big deal? How do you fix it? Could fixing the starter course cause more problems than leaving it alone?
 

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Discussion Starter #2


Also, I'm not sure this is Winterguard. It looks like felt paper to me.

Is it incorrect to put flet paper over Winterguard?

I was told the Winterguard would go 3' around the entire rear shed dormer, and up under the vinyl siding. This is not what I see here (on the far right of the picture). Am I wrong?
 

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better take a good look at that wall flashing too,seems to me it,s only coming down on the roof maybe 2 inches at the most
 

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i have seen roofers do this before you are correct this is not manufactures spec. I can see why you are upset if the salesman told you the flashing would be replaced and starter shingles would be used. I Imagine this was probably low bid.

I have seen manufactures cover warranties on their products even when a starter strip was not used and shingles in their place. I do not see this being a problem either. Hard to tell from pictures what shape the wall flashing is in. I do know it would be a pain in the butt triing to get new flashings under the siding and window. And it may never look the same. unless window wrap and siding is replaced with new.
 

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Instead of asking us, why don't you ask your contractor. It looks to me like the ice shield was installed. i wouldn't worry too much about the starter since I'd say 99% of guys around here do it the same way. We use a precut starter though.

I'd install another flahsing over that one if that existing apron flashing can't be removed and repalced. Its sometimes possible to remove and replace without damaging the siding, sometimes not. At very least I'd place a cosmetic dummy apron over the old apron for a fresh look, but if that wasn't part of the contract be prepared to pay more because I charge extra for that from the get-go.
 

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The only problem using a whole laminate shingle as the starter is the buldge it creates due to the thickness.

On new construction if I don't have starter shingles I cut a shingle in half and use the top for the starter shingle.
 

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The old flash looks like crap. If new flash is stated in the contract, have them stand by it. If not, I'd pay them to replace it.

As far as starter, whats the dif between the 1/8 hump being 8inches up and 12, non that I can see, except the 12 provides a higher drip barrier. I always flip full then stagger keys for starter.

Bob
 

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The shingles are just over 13 inches tall. The only shingles made that are 12 inches tall are standard three tab shingles. All laminate shingles are metric in size. When you flip a full laminate you have in all reality 5 layers of shingles in one spot on the bottom. You will see a bulge in the roof when done this way especially with some dew on the roof.

I yelled at my brother a couple weeks ago for doing the bottom this way.

Yes, the flashing does look like it could be replaced, but it is flashing none the less.
 

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i have done starter's both ways. we usually cut three-tabs in half horizontally and use the upper half. either way, it works. there is a bump, but it is hardly noticable.

that looks like weatherguard to me (iceguard where i'm from). honestly, going up that wall edge seems like an extra precautionary measure to me. I'd probably just felt it. anything more than a 6/12 get's no iceguard according to the last codes i read (locally of course).

and are you sure that they didn't just leave the old flashing there and slide in new step flashing? that's what i would have done.

p.s. i can't believe they used galvanized drip. that looks terrible.
 

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It does look like hes missing a course at the top of the run. :(
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Grumpy said:
Instead of asking us, why don't you ask your contractor. It looks to me like the ice shield was installed. i wouldn't worry too much about the starter since I'd say 99% of guys around here do it the same way. We use a precut starter though.

I'd install another flahsing over that one if that existing apron flashing can't be removed and repalced. Its sometimes possible to remove and replace without damaging the siding, sometimes not. At very least I'd place a cosmetic dummy apron over the old apron for a fresh look, but if that wasn't part of the contract be prepared to pay more because I charge extra for that from the get-go.
Thanks to everybody for the help and information!

I wanted to get a second opinion on these things before talking to the contractor because I have little faith that he's telling the truth. I suspect he just tells me what he thinks I want to hear.

I spoke to Certainteed's Warranty claim hotline, and the guy there recommended hand-sealing the first course, which would ensure I won't have a problem there. I brought this up with the installer, and he objected, saying that first course in already sealed to the starter course, and that he'd have to break that seal to hand-seal them. This, he said, would look bad, because it would make humps in the first course.

It sounded to me like he just didn't want to do the extra work to make up for their earlier mistake. But maybe I'm just being overly distrustful. (Fool me once...)

Is hand sealing a good thing to do, or will it create more problems than it's worth?

The drip edge originally installed is plain aluminum (but it does kinda look like galvanized in the pictures). They put some white aluminum over that, so now it matches the rest of the house trim and the garage.

Thanks also for the tip about the flashing. I'll take a look at that (and the contract) this evening.
 

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my bad, i knew it wasn't galvanized steel, i don't know why i wrote that.

anyway, by hand sealing you mean what? prying up the shingles and laying tar in there? i've never heard that term used.
 
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