I know the answer I was told, and I don't think that's it.

Basically, it boils down to water pressure. Under normal showering conditions there isn't enough water pressure directed at the seam to push or force the water through the thinset between the fabrics. Hydrostatic pressure is not high enough to induce failure.

I understand it, but actually believing it 100% is proving to be a little more difficult.

 

Yes, that's the long version. The fleece and thinset together stop wicking at a certain point and that's that.

How many Kerdi seamed installation failures do you think there are?

 

I don't quite understand it either but I will see how my flood test went in the morning.

Who flood tests every shower they do?

 

Who flood tests every shower they do?

I do. It's a required inspection here. And I'm glad it is.

 

I flood test. Normally overnight, not 24 hours. I have yet to have a leak or see a seam come loose.

Tom

 

Angus, I'm sure it works or we would be well aware of the constant failures.

I guess my doubtfulness is because it goes against common sense. Meaning, if the adhesive (thinset) is known to be porous allowing air and/or water to pass through, isn't it ironic that this same substance can provide a water tight seal when used as the bonding agent of two pieces of fabric?

 

Schluter tests the seams with a 10 or 12 inch column of water 14 feet high. It's not ironic, it's science.

 

My first floor job with travertine. I'm pretty happy with it so far. I'm using the Montolit levelling system, and it's not too shabby. I can get a bag of 500 for $100. I feel like there is a strategic way to cut down on the amount of clips I use per tile, have you guys found any shortcuts with a TLS?

 

View attachment 175146

My first floor job with travertine. I'm pretty happy with it so far. I'm using the Montolit levelling system, and it's not too shabby. I can get a bag of 500 for $100. I feel like there is a strategic way to cut down on the amount of clips I use per tile, have you guys found any shortcuts with a TLS?

I'm new to leveling systems but I'm sold on them. I use RLS. The clips cost less (at least in quantities of 2000)

Many diagrams show just one clip per side, but for larger tile 2 seem necessary.

 

http://www.progressprofiles.com/english/news_completa.php?idnews=23

A buddy of mine is using these and says he absolutely loves them.

 

I dont get this one as much- so to deal with varying thicknesses of floor covering, you need to get a whole set of barrels?

How costly is this system?

 

So I've removed all this crap tile, and replaced it with 12 x 12 travertine. It's about 140 ft2 with that semi-circle stair to cut around. Working by yourself, how long would it take you guys to just lay the tile. It's installed over Ditra.
The reason I ask is that when I quoted this job I figured a little over a day to set the tile, but for some reason it's taken 2 full days. I can't figure out what I'm missing to be more efficient.

 

There is no way I would have set all that in a day by myself. Then there is the question of, how perfect of an install are you going for?

A zero lippage job takes a good bit longer to lay than one that 1/32 or 1/16 is ok.

I'm pretty sure I'm no where near as fast a tile setter as some guys, but when I'm done, it looks good. My brother and I laid about 100 sq ft of 6x24 plank the other night and that was about 6 hrs from arriving at the site to leaving. That was including undercutting jambs and it was a bath and laundry room so wouldn't have laid as fast as that open space.

One of the problems with being an employee and not estimating is that my Dad probably has a better feel for how quick we do things than I do.

Bottom line, no way I would have done that in a day. 2 sounds fine to me. Especially considering the curve. Hopefully the tile guys will chime in.

 

The semi circle killed you. Thats a 2 day set by yourself.

The "how fast" or "how many feet can you set in a day" inferences come up now and again. Lot depends on the setter, the material, what its going over and how wide open the area is.
I have set 15ft in a day (8hours) and I have done 500ft in a day by myself. Everyone is different and every situation is different. The bottom line is however fast or slow someone is, when its done, it looks perfect and the check clears.
I know it can become a d!ck measuring contest between serious full time setters on "how many feet in so many hours". I have 2 really competitive guys on my crew that sometimes will run it up the flagpole and see who salutes. Its fun to watch and its all for bragging rights and loser pays for dinner.


...slow or fast, do it right.

 

I'm quite anal about my lippage and grout lines, so I know that slows me down. I've never been about speed, but I like to know if I'm in the right ballpark.

 

Cuts are always what slow you down. For a floor, you might only have a few cuts that are exposed, as most will get covered by shoe or under cabs. But regardless, cutting is slow.

What I like to do is lay all full tiles on day 1 and then go back and fill in cuts on day 2. The benefit I feel is day one you tile yourself out of a room and it goes relatively quick. The next day, you can walk on the full tiles so you're not hindered or slowed by freshly set tiles. If you are by yourself, trying to be as close to your cutting station helps. I'll actually make many of the cuts before even mixing thinset. No need to have to keep mixing buckets because the cuts are taking too long in real-time.

I know I'm slow. The last 500 sq ft floor I did; took 2 days to lay all full. 1.5 to install cuts. 1/2 day to grout.

 

I've only ever done one tile floor, but that's what I did too. It just made more sense. Glad to know I was thinking right.

 

I precut most of my bathrooms now a days. But I also always have a helper. We snap our lines, figure the layout, and my helper makes the cuts while I work on other things.

It's great to just turn and burn. Everything is cut and laid in less than a day.

If I were alone I would do the same thing as you. Full tiles then cuts.

 

Oh yes, a helper is awesome. On the few, rare occasions I had a cut man, that was cool.

I have been the cut-man on others' jobs. That's pretty easy money.

 

I believe he was saying he pre-cuts the entire bathroom. I've done that too. So you dry fit the entire floor and as long as you start in the same spot, your lines aren't life or death.

 

So you dry fit the entire floor and as long as you start in the same spot, your lines aren't life or death.

Hard to believe that dry-fitting the whole thing would be all that efficient. But I'm willing to be convinced by those who have done it.

I've always thought that laying out the materials twice was pretty much a self-evident time waster.

 

So here is something that may be useful to someone...today I was tiling the mixer valve wall. I used the Kerdi valve gasket. I couldn't find anything quick to mark the radius on the tile. The DVD that came with the kit was laying close...it was a perfect match...lol. The hole let me hold it right over the center to mark my tile too. Of course if I wouldn't have thrown away the template they provide I could've used that too.

 

Finally a productive use for their DVD.

 

I dry fit this one this morning...only had 4 full tile mats and everything else was cut. Man I hate cheap mats when you have to cut loose tile to even up reveals.

 

Very nice! That is a clean looking install, no mortar clumps to be seen!

 

I finished this foyer yesterday. In total it was 4.5 days of work; 1/2 day to demo old tile and scrape old thinset. 1 to lay extra plywood and Ditra, 2 to set tile, and 1 to clean grout lines, grout, buff, and clean up.

About 18 hours to lay the travertine. I have no idea how guys are making money laying tile for $5.00 a square foot!!

 

I have no idea how guys are making money laying tile for $5.00 a square foot!!

That's why you don't set a price based on sq/ft

 

One of the big tile guys who I do work for (he has branches into build/sell too now as apparently he has too much money lol) and does some of my work charges $10/ft with no complaints and he usually has a doorway surcharge and all kinds of other stuff to cover himself.

I agree though that square footage doesn't work.

I had one investor tell me that he had a guy to tile for $2.50 a square and asked me to apply that to a 4x5 area... $50 to install it lol.

 

I have to totally disagree with you guys. On floors Sqft pricing rules.

$$ for tearout, $$$ for mud set tearout, $$$ for seting tile, +$ for pattern, +$ for stone. I make a lot more money as a SQft only sub. This way There is no "I thot that was included". Want me to move a fridge great it is $, need to pull and replace trim, no problem it is $. Sub floor is Rotted, $$$ we can do it. your concrete is out of tolerance no problem $$$.
With showers I prefer a per Item pricing. "fine" level fit and finish +$$, Nitche $$, Bench $$, Linier drain $$

I also have a Minimum install charge

All this being said I no longer work direct for home owners. My contractors love that they know my prices, they can make their bids and not have to call and schedule me to come look.

The fact that I am productively on site for 30+ hours a week, as opposed to overhead work, more than makes up for any money i may be leaving on the table by bidding it other ways.

 

If my GC would check half of what's on your list, I could do that too. But I just get "give me a sqft price" without the important info included.

 

Okey new Mini topic

which looks better the Cigar trim starting at the edge of the vertical tile or going under it. here is what i am asking about
note it is only in 2 places and one is at a shower corner.

go with as is or like the one pic where it is being held in place?

 

Under as in the one being held.

Tom

 

As is. The vertical tile is the line of demarcation. Unless your base wraps leave it as is.

 

I changed them I didnt like how they were different. so made them both the same.

 

That's gonna be fun to grout.

 

So Craig, I gotta ask what is the sander for?