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Boondockian
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A friend has asked my to do something with her back porch, I'm not sure what issue she is having. I have noticed that the porch is really to small for her needs though.



The porch in question is the one with the rusty door, not the abomination in front of the skiding door.

As you can see, the porch leads into what she calls the dog pen, although it is not uncommon for goats,sheep, horses, etc. to be in there. So a super fine finished deck isn't called for.The only attachment the ledger on the existing porch is a few 16s driven into the siding since there are 2 layers of board and batton and a not so solid 4x6 behind that.

I'm putting together a proposal to put a freestanding 8x6 deck in its place. I'm plann9ing on putting this on 6 posts(posts on the corners and in the center of the long sides) Those will be on sonotube footings that are rebarred to bedrock which is only a foot or 2 down. The rim will be bolted to the posts(possibly notched in & bolted if 6x6). My original thought was to use 4x4 for the posts but now I'm thinking maybe 6x6. I'm going to be fighting with her just to use PT lumber as opposed to roughsawn from the amish so doubling the price of the posts is a big deal. The corner posts will continue up to hold the railing.

The budget for the project is literally nothing but having 5 large dogs trying to get into the house at the same time a person is is going to result in someone getting hurt. She just had a dog fall down the inside stairs somehow and ended up with an injured foot.
 

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GC/carpenter
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Dustincoc said:
A friend has asked my to do something with her back porch, I'm not sure what issue she is having. I have noticed that the porch is really to small for her needs though. The porch in question is the one with the rusty door, not the abomination in front of the skiding door. As you can see, the porch leads into what she calls the dog pen, although it is not uncommon for goats,sheep, horses, etc. to be in there. So a super fine finished deck isn't called for.The only attachment the ledger on the existing porch is a few 16s driven into the siding since there are 2 layers of board and batton and a not so solid 4x6 behind that. I'm putting together a proposal to put a freestanding 8x6 deck in its place. I'm plann9ing on putting this on 6 posts(posts on the corners and in the center of the long sides) Those will be on sonotube footings that are rebarred to bedrock which is only a foot or 2 down. The rim will be bolted to the posts(possibly notched in & bolted if 6x6). My original thought was to use 4x4 for the posts but now I'm thinking maybe 6x6. I'm going to be fighting with her just to use PT lumber as opposed to roughsawn from the amish so doubling the price of the posts is a big deal. The corner posts will continue up to hold the railing. The budget for the project is literally nothing but having 5 large dogs trying to get into the house at the same time a person is is going to result in someone getting hurt. She just had a dog fall down the inside stairs somehow and ended up with an injured foot.
If your going to save money your posts are not the place to do it. I would go 6x6 especially if you going to notch them.
 

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Boondockian
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If your going to save money your posts are not the place to do it. I would go 6x6 especially if you going to notch them.
I would only be notching them if they were 6x6 and that would be for the rim so that would only affect the strength of the railing. The only reason I thought of using 6x6 was that was what I just used a few weeks ago at work. Of course we were building an addition on top of them. I'm sure that 4x4 post would support the load. I am just wondering whether there is any reason to upsize to the 6x6s. I don't want to undersize the posts to save money, rather I don't want to spend the extra if there is no reason.
 

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what does your local codebook say?...good to be familiar with that kind of standard stuff, I'd assume they will have a minimum size for that application, they do around here..best to build above what is in the code as well, in general..

anyways for just that small structure better not to cheap out for a few lengths of lumber, IMO..personally i'd go 6x6

if she is seriously that cheap then tell your friend to get some quotes, and don't waste your time on it.
 

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Imakenice said:
what does your local codebook say?...good to be familiar with that kind of standard stuff, I'd assume they will have a minimum size for that application, they do around here..best to build above what is in the code as well, in general.. anyways for just that small structure better not to cheap out for a few lengths of lumber, IMO..personally i'd go 6x6 if she is seriously that cheap then tell your friend to get some quotes, and don't waste your time on it.
Code for a notched post is 6x6 minimum

http://www.awc.org/publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf
 

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diplomat
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I've always only used 4 posts on a 6x8 deck. 4x8 beams 6' way and and 2x8x8 joists gives you over 100PSF load.
 

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Boondockian
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
what does your local codebook say?...good to be familiar with that kind of standard stuff, I'd assume they will have a minimum size for that application, they do around here..best to build above what is in the code as well, in general..

anyways for just that small structure better not to cheap out for a few lengths of lumber, IMO..personally i'd go 6x6

if she is seriously that cheap then tell your friend to get some quotes, and don't waste your time on it.
Code here is pretty much the standard stuff everywhere. I've done a bit of looking and every table I've found says I'd be good using the 4x4's at just the corners(96" spacing), since the deck is below 6' tall. The code enforcement office I doubt is open on a saturday night, and I'm just putting this together because I'm bored. Probably won't happen till spring if at all.

I'll probably be doing this at cost and for anything I'm not comfortable doing, she has me be the contact so having her getting other quotes doesn't get me out of it.

I wouldn't be notching the posts unless they were 6x6, and then only in an effort to minimize the posts impact on floorspace.
 
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Boondockian
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, looks like 6x6 wins. I just ran the numbers and (4) 6x6 posts and te related bits and pieces comes out to cheaper than (6) 4x4 posts with its pieces.
 

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Boondockian
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I don't get it. 4 4X4 posts would handle the load, why 6?
It was originally just a passing thought I was giving a bit of consideration. Now I'm thinking it would be the best way to go since A) the cost is less , B) the area it is located in is frequented by large animals who use anything around them as scratching posts, and C) the horses have been known to try to come up the steps.
 

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It was originally just a passing thought I was giving a bit of consideration. Now I'm thinking it would be the best way to go since A) the cost is less
I meant 4 4X4s would handle the load, so I didn't understand why you priced 6 4X4s.
 

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C) the horses have been known to try to come up the steps.
So .... how do you figure/design the live load if horses are involved....

Actually not a joke..... do you have to figure some type of point loading as they have four legs.....????:rolleyes:
 

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Boondockian
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I meant 4 4X4s would handle the load, so I didn't understand why you priced 6 4X4s.
This project is for a friends place and I know exactly the kind of enviroment it will occupy. A little overbuilt doesn't hurt anything and the extra post would be centered on the door and stairs, the highest traffic area and the weakest point in the beams span. Tat part of the deck I expect would be supporting up to 5 large dogs, person, a couple little dogs, and maybe a sheep or goat or three at once. Thats about 700Lbs in center of the beams span where deflection would be greatest.


So .... how do you figure/design the live load if horses are involved....

Actually not a joke..... do you have to figure some type of point loading as they have four legs.....????:rolleyes:
I don't. The horse thats attempted that in the past has never made it past the first step or 2. I'm more concerned with them bumping into it and racking the whole structure. I may also put a gate of some sort at the bottom of the steps.
 
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