"At least nobody got hurt." That's one line to maybe soften the blow.

Tough situation you got yourself (everyone) in. Need to be more candid about contingencies and costs, especially for work involving water, rot, etc.

 

Your feelings are irrelevant to business. You didn't rot the framing. Customers should be glad they found you.

 

I'd like to see pics of this deck that can't be examined. Some deck boards can be taken up easily if it's low to the ground and put back just as easy if it's a no go for the cost to do it right. Maybe cost a grand for the client

As professionals it's our job to prepare for the client for worst case scenarios imo. Very few whole house remodels have gone into and have 40k increase in rot replacement much less a deck. That's a 300% increase

I'd challenge the OP to assume dark skies not blue ones in remodeling

 

More cake has never made me feel bad to this day


Mike

 

The only other option would be to complete the demo at an agreed cost. I rarely see a deck reframe, as top rot on joists is so common.

 

Show them how much new deck they can get for $25k, and show them the $60k build.

 

I chose to own a truck instead of a deck. Boy stuff’s expensive.

Ok carry on.

 

Before starting a job like this you have to get them to understand you do not have xray vision and there may be damage that can not be seen. If you dont have a lot of experience you may not have come across it that much, if you have a lot of experience you came across it a lot and will expect the worse. You job is to inform the customer before you start it may be 1 joist or all of them. Once they see the damage the usually understand. Grabbing a handfull of rotten wood and crumbling it up or poking a long screw driver into the rot in front of them usually does the trick.

Now you can either demo the whole thing and replace for a fixed price or replace joists as needed for an adjustable price. Most of the work I do now has hidden damage and I have to explain that most times if I give them a price at the start it will not be that at the end

 

Hey guys. Looking for advice so I can sleep at night…

took on a job to reface a deck, scope of work included removing and replacing deck boards, possibly a couple bad joists and new handrails.

Before taking the old deck boards off, there really wasn’t a sign of bad joists. They looked fine from underneath ( deck is suspended about 9 feet so you can see the bottoms of joists) and even two city inspectors agreed on that. But when we got the old deck off we found that there was a very large amount of rot on the tops of them, to the point that I fell through two just walking on them. Along with other issues like the frame flexing in the middle because the old deck boards were holding it together and random parts of framing falling apart. It’s shot.
That leads me to the current dilemma. I can’t put a new deck on this framing and feel good about it. The price to do the refacing was about $25,000, but now that we’re talking about a whole new deck it’s jumped to about $60,000-including material. I feel terrible about the jump in price, but don’t know what to do. We had talked about the potential for this briefly but I still feel bad.
I guess my question is, would you feel bad and what would you do in this situation? I haven’t submitted the newest quote yet, kinda looking for confirmation on if I’m the bad guy here or not.

I understand your problem and I don't mean to be argumentative. This was not your fault but I do have a pricing question.

The job was just removing and replacing the deck boards and railing at 25K. Usually for me the biggest lump cost of the deck is the decking and railing material. (we do alot of refacing and the decks we build are between a 5 and a 6 on the 1-10 elaborate scale. I would assume the footings are fine and the ledger is good and nothing behind it is gone. If to supply and install the floor and rail system is 25, its and additional 35 to rebuild the frame on the existing footings (which on a simple deck is pretty easy)?

Again I don't mean to be the a$$hole here but the most expensive part of the deck is 25.

What am I missing? The dumpster is already there It was already up to code and the inspectors didn't see a problem with how it was sitting (you're just building a copy of what was there in the first place). How does a frame, stair run and beam equal 35?

Again sorry to be argumentative but I just don't understand.

 

The framing and footings is not up to code. If we just reface it’s grandfathered in. If we rebuild we have to fix the issues, which is what makes it so expensive. 16 new footings, 16 footings to demo, etc

 

improve the contract to cover such.

 

Why would you even attempt to reface a deck when the framing is not to current code?

 

Cuz customer wants. No different than a roofing contractor resheeting an 80 year old roof without reframing the whole thing.

 

Do it right not the way the customer wants.
Not even close to roofing a house.

 

Do it right not the way the customer wants.
Not even close to roofing a house.

Seems to the building inspectors who looked at the subject deck that replacing the decking would have been satisfactory.

Don’t let your ego get in the way of your business.

 

No ego Just need to cover your own ass as a contractor.
What you said about the roof is correct in a way.
A roofer tells a customer that unforeseen rot or damage will be additional cost .The deck contractor should do the same thing.
The customer needs to just accept that and should have been aware of the possibility of this happening.

 

I feel sorry for myself for reading this dumb thread.

 

I did it all for you.

 

Hey guys. Looking for advice so I can sleep at night…

took on a job to reface a deck, scope of work included removing and replacing deck boards, possibly a couple bad joists and new handrails.

Before taking the old deck boards off, there really wasn’t a sign of bad joists. They looked fine from underneath ( deck is suspended about 9 feet so you can see the bottoms of joists) and even two city inspectors agreed on that. But when we got the old deck off we found that there was a very large amount of rot on the tops of them, to the point that I fell through two just walking on them. Along with other issues like the frame flexing in the middle because the old deck boards were holding it together and random parts of framing falling apart. It’s shot.
That leads me to the current dilemma. I can’t put a new deck on this framing and feel good about it. The price to do the refacing was about $25,000, but now that we’re talking about a whole new deck it’s jumped to about $60,000-including material. I feel terrible about the jump in price, but don’t know what to do. We had talked about the potential for this briefly but I still feel bad.
I guess my question is, would you feel bad and what would you do in this situation? I haven’t submitted the newest quote yet, kinda looking for confirmation on if I’m the bad guy here or not.

I guess the better way to handle this beyond "unforeseen clauses and discussions" is to give them best and worst case scenario on price and confirm they want to move ahead... when you rip it off and the obvious presents itself, the rest should be obvious to the customer...

Are ALL the joists shot? Are the posts in good shape? Can some of the cost be mitigated through replacing some joists to avoid the footings if the posts are in good shape? Of course, subject to your local AHJ, but then if it's not an acceptable solution to mitigate some of the costs without sacrificing safety, the cost is what it is and you have the AHJ to point to and that you looked at all other alternatives...

Personally, I'd point out the benefits of doing it all now, instead of more expensive later... the last few years double-digit inflation and interest rates give you ample examples of that...

 

SCOPE
OF
WORK


So, do it right...............submit a bid to

DO...
IT...
RIGHT...


and if that's too high for them...........walk away. I'm in no mood for this kind of vacillation thread.

YODA UP, dude.

DO

or

DO NOT

 

Your thread title says what's the right thing to do?.


you don't KNOW what the right thing is to do?


Or are you looking for someone's typed words to help you NOT do the right thing but FEEL okay about it.
There's only one right thing to do, ever. there is no multiple sets of right things. It's very linear. There is the absolute best course of action and then everything else is slightly less. Transparency with your client is HIGH on the list of things you need to do.

If things were reversed, and this was your deck how would you want to be treated if someone truly cared about you and your deck how would you like them to deal with this situation?

 

There's only one right thing to do, ever. there is no multiple sets of right things.

That's is one of the dumbest thing I've read. Giving a change order to fix unforeseen problems would be the right thing. Doing the work at cost because a professional would have found this before pricing, would be the right thing to do. Lots of grey area in doing what's right IMO.

What Gary Plauche did was 100% right IMO. He also took a life and many would find that wrong, grey area.

 

Hey guys. Looking for advice so I can sleep at night…

took on a job to reface a deck, scope of work included removing and replacing deck boards, possibly a couple bad joists and new handrails.

Before taking the old deck boards off, there really wasn’t a sign of bad joists. They looked fine from underneath ( deck is suspended about 9 feet so you can see the bottoms of joists) and even two city inspectors agreed on that. But when we got the old deck off we found that there was a very large amount of rot on the tops of them, to the point that I fell through two just walking on them. Along with other issues like the frame flexing in the middle because the old deck boards were holding it together and random parts of framing falling apart. It’s shot.
That leads me to the current dilemma. I can’t put a new deck on this framing and feel good about it. The price to do the refacing was about $25,000, but now that we’re talking about a whole new deck it’s jumped to about $60,000-including material. I feel terrible about the jump in price, but don’t know what to do. We had talked about the potential for this briefly but I still feel bad.
I guess my question is, would you feel bad and what would you do in this situation? I haven’t submitted the newest quote yet, kinda looking for confirmation on if I’m the bad guy here or not.

Not to be a douche but did yall have a contract and what did it say? Most contracts have a change order or necessity or unforeseen conditions clause.

In my experience I've never seen a deck I couldn't do some light work to get underneath and check. We call it exploration and charge to remove soffit etc to price correctly. I hate change orders

 

I hate change orders

Correction, the Mrs Wants to build a boat dock while we're there building a custom home -I like that kind of change order. Love it

I did not dig test Holes and now the foundation and septic have 15k in rock removal and haul off. That's me not being a pro and I'd feel like a POS getting close toa theif.

I do dig text holes though

 

Hang him by his ****in toes til dead or at least sorry.

 

About three decades ago, dad had the beach house lifted a few feet due to regular storm flooding. Our family dispute was whether to do that or just rebuild, cost-wise. It wasn't until after the project had begun that they discovered all the rotting joists and rim, etc. I don't recall any "feel bad" discounts from the GC.

 

I don't feel bad at all about changes that are necessary and brought up from the beginning, so full labor rates with profit built in plus 20% to the big fella on all labor and resources.

If the gc didn't give your dad an idea of worst case scenario he's a hack in my book. I've dropped pics of 3 story townhouses with tiles roofs (heavy AF) full gut renos OVER the water I had to transfer point loads, move and eliminate walls, fix rot and move columns and didn't go over budget on repairs. I did 3k in exploration and told them worst case scenario and stuck to it. Was a Mess.

That's pro. Pulling some sub flooring up and acting surprised an old house needed new joists is Snake oil alley imo, or a paper boi who couldnt frame a house to save his fi'ng life

I've got dozens of these remodels I've posted so it's not like a one off. Every one of those steel columns is buried 30' plus in the lake bed. All estimated prior to 95% of sheetrock coming off expect around those problems spots, removed some siding and flooring as well. 3k in labor gave me an ability to stay on point on a 405k renovation 👍

 

Never had a deck ******* that didn't need some work on the structure.

I tell customers the price to redeck it. I include some minor rebuilding in my costs as I can usually see how it was built and take an educated guess.

I also warn them it may need a full rebuild if we get into it and find lots of damage. I give them a number on that as well.

I usually do composite upgrades from wood decks. So I am adding joists anyway, so the cost isn't a ton more, if the posts and beams are useable. But it isn't chicken feed either.

 

Another 1-er & doner


Mike

 

they probably wouldnt feel that bad if you lost money on an underbid

“Subsurface condition’s clause”

 

I'll be happy to share contract clauses and how i present those orst csse sceanarios if anyone wants those items. I started doing it after a lot.of talks with Griz and DaVinci more than 20 years ago

 

Right, the key is to inform them what could happen. Not sure how old the houses were that you worked in but really hard to price out reframing a 2nd or 3rd floor bathroom in a house built in 1890 when you cant see it. I just let them know what may be under everything and when I get into it I show them everything

 

So you’re asking if you should hide the fact that your clients deck is dangerous and falling apart? And if this would make you the good guy? Why don’t you tell us what you think?