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What do you think about covering interior damage with your roof warranty?

I currently exclude it but prospects are telling me that some competitors include it.

If I did include it i would want to be able to bring in my own painter.
 

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5. The scope of this guarantee covers the repair of any defect of workmanship and does not cover any subsequent or interior damage as a result of said defect, nor does it cover any monetary credit or refund.


That's a copy and paste directly from my warranty document. If someone says others include it, I say show me in writing where it is included because I do not know of any legitimate companies that cover interior damage. I also then go on to tell them the reason why it is not included. One bad apple soils the whiole batch. Some people willt ake advantage and want a new big screen tv, new wall, new ceiling, new carpet, new hard wood under their carpet all for a small blotch in the ceiling. Some people are con artists and because of those people we can not cover interior damage. Besides that is what home owner's insurance is for.

I have had one or two people threaten to sue me over interior damage until I point out that they signed a document stating interior damage is not covered. Then they tell me to put it on my insurance and I explain that my insurance will not cover it unless the damage happens while I am working. Once the job is completed insurance is no longer in effect for that job.

There is no way I am writing a blank check to each and every one of my customers. I'd rather lose the job... but I think that these people telling you competitors are including it are just trying to negotiate. Like I said, tell them "Show me."

I can not tell you the number of times I have had a customer tell me so and so said this, so and so said that, so and so is cheaper, so and so is doing the same thing... and I respond "show me" and some bull kaka excuse comes up about them not wanting to show, not professional, I don't have it right now, etc... Bull kaka, I am a poker player and that's called "calling a bluff".
 

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Thom
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Nice, you expressly declare you are not responsible for the negative effects of your own Fock-ups.

The owner has a $2,000 deductible, your failure to properly install a flashing results in $5,000 in damage, and the owner is on the hook for $2,000.

I guess that'll teach that idiot homeowner to trust a contractor.

Years ago, I was sitting in a mobile-home sales office, talking to the owner about building a new sales office for him in another town. He got a call, on the speakerphone, from a plumber who had been called to service a trailer he'd sold a year earlier. The plumber described the problem, clearly one caused by the buyer, not a faulty installation. The owner of the business that sold the trailer told the guy to fix it, how to properly open and seal up the belly of the trailer to do the work, and to send him the bill. When he got off the phone, I asked him why he would pay that when it clearly was not an issue of a faulty unit/installation. His response: "The buyer knows it's his fault. If I voluntarily pay for it, he will send his friends to me. It's cheap advertising and certainly a lot cheaper than the potential cost of hiring a lawyer."
 

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Like I said Thom, one bad apple ruins the bunch. Some people will scam when they know they've got you by the short hairs. I'm not in the business of writing blank checks. If I decide I want to fix their subsequent damage that's my decision not my duty. Similair to what you posted about the trailer and the plumber, I get to make the decision just like the trailer salesman. it wasn't his duty to fix that problem, it was his decision. I have fixed interior damage in the past, but it's not the norm. My responsibility is to fix the failed workmanship ONLY. This is in writing on the back of every contract plain as day in plain ol' American english and if they do not agree to my terms they can hire someone else.

If they didn't read the warranty, that's their fault, not mine. I'm obviously open and candid about that fact and have nothing to hide. If they ask, I tell them and some consumers have asked in the past, and no doubt will ask in the fiture. I encourage every consumer to do their due diligence before hiring any contractor. Know what you are signing before you sign it and if you don't agree, don't sign it.

I encourage you to read some of the warranty documents from some of the manufacturers whos' products you install and see if they don't also have similiar limitations and dsiclaimers. I assumre you of the warranty documents I have examined from my manufacturers and competitors, it's the norm. Roofing has a very high liability, and as a smart business manager I need to limit that liability. I'm not a home builder, but a roofer. The two are not the same.

Let me put it in another way. Some of our work is commercial. In some of these commercial buildings there may be printing machines worth about as much as my house. Get some water on that and funny things will start to happen. Do you think I am capable of buying them a new machine? As I stated my insurance on each job runs out at completion of that job.

Since you are a home builder, let me put it to you yet another way. Let's say there is a faulty wire that sparks a fire and burns down a few rooms before it gets put out. Are you going to build them a new house out of pocket? That's what home owner's insurance is for.


I guess the good news here is that we have very few call backs on our workmanship. We're not perfect but we try.


Before I part, I can tell you of one story which proves my point regarding bad apples. We isntalled a roof on most of a house but not an addition. we did however install gutters on the addition. The first winter after the roof was complete, the roof leaked like a funnel on the addition, remember we did not install that roof. The customer not only wanted us to fix the roof, which we said we would do for additional funds, but also wanted us to fix his ceiling, walls, molding around his windows, replace his window treatments, and refinish his entire floor within that room. Remember, we didn't even install the roof, at the time he told us it was less than 10 years old and installed by a master roofer. After the leak he told us it was over 20 years old and didn't know why we didn't include it in the bid. We really couldn't tell the age because it had several layers of indoor outdoor carpet on it. At the end of the day, because our proposal excluded the flat roof on the addition and our warranty excluded subsequent damage; we got out of remodeling some jag-bag's tv room for free. In my opinion he was trying to scam us. I can think of no other way he would think we would be liable for a leak on a 20 year old roof that we did not install. They are out there and we have to protect ourselves.

Like wearing a condom, not every girl out there has diseases, but some do and we have to protect ourselves. Not ever customer out there is a scam artist but some are and we have to protect ourselves. It is a litigious society that we live in, people love to sue. Protect yourself.
 

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Thom
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Grumpy your story is interesting but not applicable.

The issue is warranting the work you do, not the work you didn't do. Here in NM we have a couple issues you may not have in Illinois. We are required to perform our work A) consistent with building codes which specifically includes manufacturers installation requirements, and B) in a workmanlike manner.

If the work was properly done, there would not be a failure unless there were things outside the norm (like a plane crashing through the roof). A roof leak, within a year, would generally be an indication of an improper installation, improper meaning it either violated code (manufacturers instructions) or was not done in a workmanlike manner.

In the above case, here in NM, I am required by law to repair the problem and any damage that resulted from the failure of materials or labor I provided. The reason I am required to fix resulting damage is because the damage resulted from my failure to meet the minimum requirements of the law and that failure is what caused the damage. Even if the failure was a material failure, I am still the responsible party as the contractor.

Some disclaimer in my contract that says I am not responsible for the legally mandated standard of work I performed would be meaningless.

I guess Illinois is different than NM.
 

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I'd bet Grumpies exclusion of consequential damages might not hold up to much legal scrutiny. Kind of like an electrician who burns the place down, and offers to re-wire it at cost. A roofer is expected to install a product which is to keep the building weather tight under reasonable conditions. If he fails at that due to his supplied materials, or his workmanship, how can he not be expected to cover all normal incurred damages?

In reality, the HO'ers insurance and Grumpies insurance will battle it out. But Grumpie is going to lose, and get even grumpier
 

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Our warranty does not cover damages caused, only repair and or replacement of defective roofing workmanship. I agree, I have yet to see that covered under a roofing contract/warranty. Seems like a sales gimmick to me.


Too many bad apples. So far this item line in our contract has held up legally quite well, otherwise we would probably be more involved with the interior decorating business :laughing:.

I think the problem stems from being able to prove what is reasonable damage and what is not. Most customers tend to be unreasonable about this.

I would suck as an insurance agent :laughing:.
 

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Not on your life. There are too many dip*****$ out there that would ruin their own house or hire an unqualified to add a radon pipe,wood stove, drop a tree limb on the peak, etc etc and damage your work. There will be plenty of ambulance chasers that will get their hand in your pocket because of it. And when you put it in writing and sign it you own it. You have to even make notes on the contract that there are limbs overhanging house, too shady allowing moss to grow, or any discrepencies that might threaten your work. And explain to the ho that "if that tree falls on the house, my warranty does not cover you." Some out there think that warranties cover everything and anything.

Oh your competition says it, do they really do it??

P.S.-Isn't your job hard enough, dont make your life harder.
 

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I agree with Grumpy. I have same language in my contract. There are way to many penetrations on a roof that could cause interior damage and the roofer is the first to get the blame.

Chimney's, plumbing pipes(cracks or broke below the roof), windows, siding,etc. There is just way to much liabilty out there to warrant interior damage.
But if i go out to a job and is some crappy workmanship that I did't catch, then I would pay for interior damage's(either out of pocket or turn into my insurance). (I have yet to do this in 8 years in business, over 1000 roofs, 0 complaints with BBB)
Most call backs(99.9%) are not result of the roof, but something else like a chimney,other penetration or condensation.

Some homeowners will try to get you to pay for interior damage that was present before we even did the roof.

It is just a way to minimize the problematic sue happy type of homeowner.

All materials used have the same language. Here is an old Elk warranty I found, just like all other manufacturer's.

EXCLUSION OF INCIDENTAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. IN NO EVENT WILL ELK BE LIABLE FOR ANY INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER RESULTING FROM THE USE, MISUSE OR INABILITY TO USE ELK shingles, OR FROM DEFECTS OR NONCONFORMITY TO SPECIFICATIONS OF ELK SHINGLES, OR FROM ELK'S OWN NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORT. This exclusion applies regardless whether such damages are sought for breach of warranty, breach of contract, negligence, or strict liability in tort or under any other legal theory, and by purchasing Elk Shingles, the Buyer waives and releases all other remedies, claims, and rights.

I bought a new washer and it leaked causing my wood floor to buckel in a 5x5 area. Called them and they said exactly what the warranty info said that I neglected to read, but what washer will warrant incidental and consequential damages? None --0.
 

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In the above case, here in NM, I am required by law to repair the problem and any damage that resulted from the failure of materials or labor I provided. The reason I am required to fix resulting damage is because the damage resulted from my failure to meet the minimum requirements of the law and that failure is what caused the damage. Even if the failure was a material failure, I am still the responsible party as the contractor.

Some disclaimer in my contract that says I am not responsible for the legally mandated standard of work I performed would be meaningless.

I guess Illinois is different than NM.
There is no such law in IL and if there were I would either be 50% higher than I already am or I would be flipping burgers at Mc DOnalds because I do not agree to those terms. Every job would then be a gamble (not that they don't involve major risk already), and if that's the case I might as well just play poker tournaments all day and have fun gambling instead of working. Maybe collect welfare and disability and let you guys support my gambling habit.

As stated twice already, my insurance does not cover any damages after the fact. Nor does anyones insurance that I know of cover workmanship. Check with your insurance company. You might be suprised to find out yours also might not cover damages after completion of the job, only while on the job. While I could get the kind of insurance that would cover these damages after the job is complte, I have elected not to, since it's like a 30% increase and I am already competing against guys with no insurance etc... I'm already spending more for insurance per year than I earn per year, and looking for ways to make more cuts.


I do think legally it would stand up because as I said most, if not all manufacturers, I am familiar with have the same clauses. However once you get sued you lose no matter what, it's time and money wasted from that point on, even if you do win the case. Therefore I have an unwritten rule that if it's more energy to fight than to fix, the obvious choice is to fix, not fight.

One caveat to the fight or fix rule is when you KNOW the customer is tryig to take advantage then my personality won't allow me to do anything but fight. However I have found when a customer is really trying to take advantage they usually don't fight too too hard. There have been some excpetions to that rule where I had one guy fight me every step of the way making of false accusations, tryign to get alot of extra work for free. He was by far the toughest. Also there have been some times when I have chosen to fight when in retrospect when it's all said and done, I should have fixed. Oh well life is about decisions, and we have to live with the consequences and hopefully learn.

You guys can run your businesses your way. I have to run mine the way that is right for me. I make my policies based upon my experiences, and have weighed the benefits and risks to a total warranty that would cover everything and I can't see MY benefit.
 

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I know that if a new roof i subbed out to a roofing company leaked and caused interior damage due to them not knowing what they were doing i would be nice first, ask them to fix the roof first and foremeost to stop further damage, and ask them to remibursh me for going over and repairing interior damages that i would initally cover and back bill...and if they did'nt want to, it'd be on like donkey kong from that point on until i got remiburshed. Having a leaky roof AFTER it's been replaced means something got screwed up somewhere, and it really is that simple....i'd have my lawyers stick that ridiculous "clause" up somebodies azz LOL!! wow...to me that screams hack- "i wanna do the work for you, but i'm not sure if i can do it right so i want to have you sign away my responsibility to the job IF i do indeed screw something up that causes you property damage"

Guess this is another one of those posts i shake my head in awe, wondering "really? this thread is real??":eek:
 

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What happens when the homeowner goes up walks around the valley's cleaning gutters out, puncture's the valley with out realizing it, then all of sudden the roof leaks . Who is responsible and who will get the blame?
Or a satelite guy, siding, gutter, window guy.
 

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I know that if a new roof i subbed out to a roofing company leaked and caused interior damage due to them not knowing what they were doing i would be nice first, ask them to fix the roof first and foremeost to stop further damage, and ask them to remibursh me for going over and repairing interior damages that i would initally cover and back bill...and if they did'nt want to, it'd be on like donkey kong from that point on until i got remiburshed. Having a leaky roof AFTER it's been replaced means something got screwed up somewhere, and it really is that simple....i'd have my lawyers stick that ridiculous "clause" up somebodies azz LOL!! wow...to me that screams hack- "i wanna do the work for you, but i'm not sure if i can do it right so i want to have you sign away my responsibility to the job IF i do indeed screw something up that causes you property damage"

Guess this is another one of those posts i shake my head in awe, wondering "really? this thread is real??":eek:
No it is not. If you think so, start up your own full time roofing gig and let us know how it turns out :). My guess is you will be too busy hanging yourself...read into that what you will.
 

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It's far to easy to pinpoint what YOU did vs having one of those hack sub contractors that installs satilites. We've installed countless roofs and have never had an issue...granted not nearly as many roofs as a dedicated roofing company since that is all you deal with all day everyday, but i guess i'm lucky since my "Mayberry" like area is'nt as choked full of something for nothings...i dunno, I guess i'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of doing work, work does'nt hold up, and then charging the HO's again because i dont know how to do the job i was paid to do the first time.

Whenever you start making assumptions, bringing in outside variables like gutter light isntallers being up there and messing with things, satalite guys running their lags down through the shingles, attaching their cables down in vally flashing...seen it done...that in itself is it's own situation and has NOTHING to do with the original roof installed....so why would i have to have a 1000 page contract dealing with the warranty aspect of what if's highlighting every possible scenario of what OTHER PEOPLE do to the roof once we leave the job site?? Christ, you could use that ridiculous train of thought for every aspect of construction trades...

"what if somebody takes a huge dump and clogs the toilet", who's going to pay for the water damage to the floor, cabinets, possible carpet/ceiling in the basement if water leaks down...the plumber that installed the toilet in the first place??

"what if somebody plugs in a 25 spot outlet expansion device and overloads the circuit frying the outlet, or possibly starting a fire" is the electrician going to be on the hook for that too??

All these what if's you guys are talking about, at least the way i'm reading the original post, has nothing to do with the root question of...if you did a crappy job installing a product that lead to the degregation of other products who is responsible...well, if you put a roof on a house for me, dont know how to properly flash walls, chimney's, dormers and there is interior damage because you dont know how to perform your job..guess what- YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE since YOU did'nt do the job you were paid to do...and remember, if your paid for a job your classified as a professional so your expected to deliver professional results....roofs selling leakey roofs...completely unprofessional. Plumbers selling leaking pipes..completely unprofessional and you can damn sure beat when a plumber has a line in a wall that leaks and ruins things HE will be paying also.

again...the thought processes on here is scarey....no wonder people hate contractors if this is the mentality they're dealing with...very sad...if you cant take responsibility for your action...please, go punch a clock for somebody else, we dont need anymore like you "representing" our skilled trades, you've done plenty of damage already thank you.
 

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It's far to easy to pinpoint what YOU did vs having one of those hack sub contractors that installs satilites. We've installed countless roofs and have never had an issue...granted not nearly as many roofs as a dedicated roofing company since that is all you deal with all day everyday, but i guess i'm lucky since my "Mayberry" like area is'nt as choked full of something for nothings...i dunno, I guess i'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of doing work, work does'nt hold up, and then charging the HO's again because i dont know how to do the job i was paid to do the first time.

Whenever you start making assumptions, bringing in outside variables like gutter light isntallers being up there and messing with things, satalite guys running their lags down through the shingles, attaching their cables down in vally flashing...seen it done...that in itself is it's own situation and has NOTHING to do with the original roof installed....so why would i have to have a 1000 page contract dealing with the warranty aspect of what if's highlighting every possible scenario of what OTHER PEOPLE do to the roof once we leave the job site?? Christ, you could use that ridiculous train of thought for every aspect of construction trades...

"what if somebody takes a huge dump and clogs the toilet", who's going to pay for the water damage to the floor, cabinets, possible carpet/ceiling in the basement if water leaks down...the plumber that installed the toilet in the first place??

"what if somebody plugs in a 25 spot outlet expansion device and overloads the circuit frying the outlet, or possibly starting a fire" is the electrician going to be on the hook for that too??

All these what if's you guys are talking about, at least the way i'm reading the original post, has nothing to do with the root question of...if you did a crappy job installing a product that lead to the degregation of other products who is responsible...well, if you put a roof on a house for me, dont know how to properly flash walls, chimney's, dormers and there is interior damage because you dont know how to perform your job..guess what- YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE since YOU did'nt do the job you were paid to do...and remember, if your paid for a job your classified as a professional so your expected to deliver professional results....roofs selling leakey roofs...completely unprofessional. Plumbers selling leaking pipes..completely unprofessional and you can damn sure beat when a plumber has a line in a wall that leaks and ruins things HE will be paying also.

again...the thought processes on here is scarey....no wonder people hate contractors if this is the mentality they're dealing with...very sad...if you cant take responsibility for your action...please, go punch a clock for somebody else, we dont need anymore like you "representing" our skilled trades, you've done plenty of damage already thank you.

So are manufacturer's defects responsible for incidental or consequential damages.
Windows, Siding, Roofs,,Washer Dryer, Fridge? NO,,,,,NO,,,,NO<<<<<<<<<NOOOOOOO
So why should we?

Why would anyone risk a $1500-$2000.00 profit with the potential of tens of thousands of dollars worth of interior damage liability.

Doing construction as a means of getting by till I get a break into the drag racing circuit: IHI Profile

This forum is for professionals. Go back to racing.
 

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So are manufacturer's defects responsible for incidental or consequential damages.
Windows, Siding, Roofs,,Washer Dryer, Fridge? NO,,,,,NO,,,,NO<<<<<<<<<NOOOOOOO
So why should we?
IF something they did caused a major problem, then by rights they ARE responsible and should be held acountable, the problem is they have more money and more lawyers so if you really in truely wanna go toe to toe to prove them wrong, they'll gladly be your huckleberry and just drag it out until your broke and are forced to give up the fight or blow you off all together in the first place which many of them do


Why would anyone risk a $1500-$2000.00 profit with the potential of tens of thousands of dollars worth of interior damage liability.

WTF are you talking about?? who's making $1500-2000 profit with the potential of tens of thousands of dollars worth of interior damage liability....the mexi's getting picked up in the HD parking lot?? the accountant who turns into handy mandy on saturday/sunday?? i'm missing your point on this??

Doing construction as a means of getting by till I get a break into the drag racing circuit: IHI Profile

This forum is for professionals. Go back to racing.
Called a joke jackass, but if your that flustered you try to highlight THAT as a jab, you my freind are in a sad stage in your life:laughing::laughing:.
Now get off your bosses computer and go hump some shingles up the ladder for him...damn grunts...never doing what they're supposed to be:censored:
 

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This forum is for professionals. Go back to racing.
:eek: I'm sorry, did I just read this right. Another Internet tough guy hiding behind Internet anonymity and doesn't even have enough posts to find his way to the basement yet but he's telling IHI, a guy who has been here for over 5 years and has over 1,500 posts that this forum is for professionals. :laughing: That's rich.
 

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I don't care how many post you have here 5-10,000. More post don't make you more professional than another.

But to come on here and talk sh&t with the profile IhI has,

Doing construction as a means of getting by till I get a break into the drag racing circuit:

and run his mouth that I am some hack, IHI can kiss my ass.

So does it make you more professional the more post you have?

I tend to read some helpful info on these roofing websites and seldomly reply or post unless I need avise or strongly disagree with a comment like IHI has.

Have no desire, too busy, but is a helpful resource.

IM me if you want some info about me or my company.

Not hiding, just my preference to keep my business private from internet forums and/ or giving trade tips to local competitors.

Not a user of facebook, my space or any other internet site.


By the way IHI, I did my shingle humping back in 1993 & 1994.
 
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