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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've never really been happy with some of the solutions that are given when crown molding needs to make the 'transition' from a straight wall to a rake wall, - - the choices seem to be between corner blocks, different sized crowns trying to blend into each other (not a perfect science by any means), - - and even 'I' have been guilty of suggesting the 'cheat-tweak' (on only the most minimum of angles).

So hear is what I consider the most 'basic' of solutions, - - simply going back to the most 'pure' form of carpentry to make the transition.

Kind of hard to explain (though I'm willing to try if necessary), - - but the 'experienced' will be able to 'see it' in their heads as I did.

The most basic of explanations would be to say that it's 3 separate pieces of crown meeting at the same 'front-upper-inside' corner with a 'pair' of compound angles working together in 'unison' to achieve both the angle and the turn, both smoothly and geometrically.

I know, I know, - - new ideas are so hard to 'accept', - - that's alright, bring on the critics, - - this is how 'I' will be doing it for now on.

I not only 'like' this transition, - - it will also have some bragging rights, - - that is, - - a 'separation' of the men from the boys.

The following pic is a small 'mock-up' of a 30 degree-angled transition unit, - - I gave it a quick coat of paint for clarity.



I'm hopin' that (Finley) character don't find this one in a book!!, (just kiddin' Mike), - - but I don't think so, - - I've never heard mention of it. :Thumbs:
 

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Tom,

(chuckling) - this is getting fun!

Sorry buddy, but if you have been spending your life figuring this stuff out by trial and error... you're wasting a lot of your time!

"Crown Molding & Trim - Install it like a pro" by Wayne Drake, starting on page 37.



What else you got?

You're not going to be taking credit for inventing the return next are you? :cheesygri

PS:
I'm really hoping that none of this is any secret to any trim carpenters out there.
 

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Since you asked for an opinion for or against, of course I am for it. I can't comprehend how anybody could have an against opinion of this since it is the only correct way to do it.

This is kind of my point in my earlier question about how do guys learn.

I really see a reluctance on the part of established contractors or those coming up in the ranks to read and learn their trade from books. It seems everything has to be learned on the job or learned the hard way from trial and error. When with the purchase of just a few books you can at least learn the correct procedures and techniques that are required to be competent.

At least armed with the right knowledge it is now just a matter of focusing and honing very specific and targeted skills to put it all together and leap frog years ahead of guys who are still trying to figure stuff out by trial and error.

I have always followed the motto that just about everything in the world has been done before, so why reinvent the wheel?

I've found this applies to just about everything you will ever face in life, be it personal issues, how to run your company or how to do your daily work.

Most of my success I can attribute to being a great copy cat. I copy what works and discard what doesn't. :Thumbs:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Mike Finley said:
Tom,

(chuckling) - this is getting fun!

Sorry buddy, but if you have been spending your life figuring this stuff out by trial and error... you're wasting a lot of your time!

"Crown Molding & Trim - Install it like a pro" by Wayne Drake, starting on page 37.



What else you got?

You're not going to be taking credit for inventing the return next are you? :cheesygri

PS:
I'm really hoping that none of this is any secret to any trim carpenters out there.
Wasn't really 'trial and error', - - just occurred to me and I went out there and cut it, - - the only real time it took was for 'glue-set' and 'paint-drying', - - anyway, - - you're frikkin' killin' me :cheesygri , - - no, I don't have that particular book, - - bullnose, huh??, - - might have to take off work a few days to figure that one, - - oh, no, - - not fallin' for that one, - - you've probly' got it right in front of you!! :rolleyes:

Anyway, - - fine then, - - here's the best I got in my own defense, - - "Great minds think alike", - - hey, did I just make that sayin' up?? :cheesygri

Also, - - I was 'this close' to offerin' you dinner tickets if you found this in a book, - - glad I'm not a gambler. ;)

P.S. Remember, - - to stop 'experimentation' is to stop 'progress'. Somebody, somewhere, had to experiment to come up with this idea to begin with, - - I've got more bad news for you, - - I rarely, rarely ever use a calculator, except to check myself, - - sure, it would make life easier, - - but the 'brain' is way too valuable to waste. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Anyone out there know computers??, - - I can't find the damn 'EJECT-FINLEY' key!! :cheesygri
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Mike Finley said:
You're not going to be taking credit for inventing the return next are you? :cheesygri
I 'did' invent the return, - - didn't you notice I keep saying "I'll be back"!! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
By the way, Mike, - - I'm still tryin' to figure out what's 'trial and error' about it, - - I got one of them fancy saw's with lotsa' little numbers on it :cheesygri

90/2 = 45, 30/2 = 15, - - saw comes with a 'trigger' too. ;)

Nothing against 'reading and learning', - - I do it myself, - - but if no one experiments, - - there's nothing new to write. At some point in time, - - this was a 'new' idea to someone.

Never seems there's enough time to read everything, - - I read up on a priority/need-to-know basis, - - 'trimming' is not a high-priority to me, - - beings it's always been my 'strong-point'.

I don't mind someone else's ideas, - - but I'll continue to try to think out my own, too. If one of the 'many' figured it out, too, - - that's out of my control, - - no reason to let it hinder my thought process.

An hour-and-a-half of my own time (non-laborious 'drying' time, at that), - - coming up with my own well thought-out solution, - - even if already previously 'conquered' by someone else, - - is still in my consideration rewarding and time well-spent.

I've actually only even thought about it because of people asking on these sites how to do it, - - I've actually never had 'occasion' to even have to do crown-on-vault.

But I have done things like 'port-hole' window casing jigs (made to spin on-site and in-place), - - split-door-jamb jigs that are both reversible and one-size-fits-all for any jamb thickness, - - reversible octagonal 'strip-ceiling' jigs (with absolute '0' allowance, - - no trim or caulk allowed), - - and multiple other jigs for multi-million dollar homes that are basically 'one-time' gigs.

If you never experiment or experience even the first 'one' of them, - - you'll never experiment or experience 'any' of them.

'Copying' can and will give you a jump on 'many', - - but within it's own limitations, - - will all but 'close the door' on the few.

If I wasn't the 'experimental' type, - - Michael Graves, among others, - - wouldn't have me.
 

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actually, if youve got tons of money and time you can have rake crown milled so that the profiles will be an exact match at your corners, but the rake crown is bigger than the norm.
 

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Bored & searching old posts ;)

Same thinking works for the 120 degree outside corners

LOL The ones where a 12" crown's miter will be 3'6" long LOL. 12" is in mind melt compound miter mode anyway (Coped), now throw a radius wall on one side with the rubber moulding (tire tread), on top of a freize board too, with cove at the bottom.... please:w00t: flat to transition rakes everyday all day long hehehe

WDA
 

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WDA said:
Same thinking works for the 120 degree outside corners

LOL The ones where a 12" crown's miter will be 3'6" long LOL. 12" is in mind melt compound miter mode anyway (Coped), now throw a radius wall on one side with the rubber moulding (tire tread), on top of a freize board too, with cove at the bottom.... please:w00t: flat to transition rakes everyday all day long hehehe

WDA


Wha wha whaaaat? :blink:
 

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WDA said:
Same thinking works for the 120 degree outside corners

LOL The ones where a 12" crown's miter will be 3'6" long LOL. 12" is in mind melt compound miter mode anyway (Coped), now throw a radius wall on one side with the rubber moulding (tire tread), on top of a freize board too, with cove at the bottom.... please:w00t: flat to transition rakes everyday all day long hehehe

WDA
Allow me to interpret.

A 12" rake tangenitally compromised through a multi degreed facet flange will almost always yield a compartmentalized, fixed ratio. UNLESS there is a full moon. Then we would have to split the hypotenuse, scramble the supplementary angles and, of course, combine the complimentary angles. Once this is done it is a fairly simple process to bisect the perpendicular, angulate the bisector, and chew with your mouth closed.

Capiche?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
WDA said:
Funky round wall...plus tires....+ stacked crown treatment = how do you do that corner, LOL
......the specifc situation I refered to :)
WDA
Sheesh!! - - STEAM BOX for that one!!
 

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Rubber molding...tire...rubber.... get it ;)..... LOL see attachment

The real piont is that miter......seriously a 'normal' miter (cut on the face) would have been 38" long. Ended up being a 3 pc miter, very similar to the rake to flat. The real trick however was dealing with the curve coming into the middle piece...LOL Play time LOL

Pretty cool looking tires in the previous image hey?.... not too bad for CG, just happened to be modeling them right now, perfect timing. OK I'm still bored LOL

WDA
 

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I'm currently facing a similar situation and have a couple of quick questions on this if you guys don't mind.

Some info:

-For this job, I'm going up the rake and then I need to make an inside horizontal 90 degree corner at the top(just the opposite of Mike Finley's picture above).

Sorry I dont have pictures of it. The room layout is basically the eave wall, to the gable-end wall, to another horizontal wall running under the ridge

-I'm planning to use something other than standard crown because I don't have a suitable nailer for it on the ceiling, (not sure what yet). The ceiling I installed is an Andersen product called "country classic plank", which is similar to drop ceiling tiles, except it is attached to wood and has no track/grid. It looks a lot like tongue and groove siding.

-I'm making a mock-up using 24degrees as the angle of rake. I used some scrap base cap turned upside down for this and I've got the bottom done.

So far, I have: A horizontal piece on the eave wall with an inside 45, a small transition piece with an inside 45 on it and a 12 degree miter on the other end, (the 1st piece on the rake wall). This is mated to another 12 degree cut on the piece running up the rake. I've got this but have two questions.

1. For the real one would you cope the horizontal piece that meets that little transition piece, or just do an inside 45?

2. On the upper end of the transition piece, (corner of eave wall to rake wall)is that typically a butt of scarf joint?

Now, things are getting fuzzy for me, what are my cuts to get level at the top of the rake?

My apologies if what I am saying is confusing, I wish I had a digital camera.
 
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