Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I would like to know how much painters would charge for painting 1000 SF, but specifically, what variables they consider when coming up with a quote....read on. There's a lot of discrepancy out there so maybe I am undercutting myself. I am new to painting, over the last 12 months. So here's the scenario: Straight wall of 1000 SF, you need to cut the top, one coat of latex is required, paint is about $35 / gallon. Wall is in good shape and only needs sanding. Travel time to customer is 30 min.

When I price a job like this I charge it based on Time and Materials. I would first (1) determine how much time it would take to paint the wall space of 1000 SF; (2) I would determine how much time is required for Surface preparation, and (3) how much time is required for Setup and Clean up and (4) the Cost of Materials needed for job. I then determine what I should add on for having my liability / disabilty insurance as well as the cost of using my equipment and tools (ladders, brusheds, rollers, drills, etc) as these items depreciate. Finally I determine the risk factor involved in the job by asking myself "am I placing myself at high risk by doing this job, by, for example, having to reach great heights on a ladder?"...I would then add on a fee for this risk.

So here goes... let's assume that this is an easy job with no risk.

My hourly rate is $40 (Canadian)

1) Paint time.....I would charge $40 / hour @ 3 hours = $120
2) Surface Preparaion... I would charge $40 (1 hour) which would involve sanding and vacuuming the floors for dust before painting.
3) Set up / Clean up...I would charge $40 (1 hour) which would involve moving the paint equipment into the room, covering the floors, and cleaning up after the job is done.
4) Cost of material...I would charge at total of $105, which includes 3 gallons of paint @ $35, sand paper, roller sleeve, tray liner, rags and garbage bag.
5) Travel Time....I would charge $20 for picking up paint (assuming one trip to paint store and delivering it to job site)
6) Use of Equipment and Depreciation. I would charge $20 (educated guess) for the use of my equipment (ladders, power tools, rollers, etc)
7) Liability Insurance / Disability Insurance. I would charge $15 (educated guess) for my these insurance.

Total for job would be $360.

What do you think??? What would you charge??? Am I undercutting my price?? Do you have a formula for insurances, say 25% of your fee??? Some people charge 50 cents a foot...that would be $500!!!!

Help!!!

Thanks, Zeebo
 

·
Painting Contractor
Joined
·
1,881 Posts
Zeebo said:
I would like to know how much painters would charge for painting 1000 SF, but specifically, what variables they consider when coming up with a quote....read on. There's a lot of discrepancy out there so maybe I am undercutting myself. I am new to painting, over the last 12 months. So here's the scenario: Straight wall of 1000 SF, you need to cut the top, one coat of latex is required, paint is about $35 / gallon. Wall is in good shape and only needs sanding. Travel time to customer is 30 min.

When I price a job like this I charge it based on Time and Materials. I would first (1) determine how much time it would take to paint the wall space of 1000 SF; (2) I would determine how much time is required for Surface preparation, and (3) how much time is required for Setup and Clean up and (4) the Cost of Materials needed for job. I then determine what I should add on for having my liability / disabilty insurance as well as the cost of using my equipment and tools (ladders, brusheds, rollers, drills, etc) as these items depreciate. Finally I determine the risk factor involved in the job by asking myself "am I placing myself at high risk by doing this job, by, for example, having to reach great heights on a ladder?"...I would then add on a fee for this risk.

So here goes... let's assume that this is an easy job with no risk.

My hourly rate is $40 (Canadian)

1) Paint time.....I would charge $40 / hour @ 3 hours = $120
2) Surface Preparaion... I would charge $40 (1 hour) which would involve sanding and vacuuming the floors for dust before painting.
3) Set up / Clean up...I would charge $40 (1 hour) which would involve moving the paint equipment into the room, covering the floors, and cleaning up after the job is done.
4) Cost of material...I would charge at total of $105, which includes 3 gallons of paint @ $35, sand paper, roller sleeve, tray liner, rags and garbage bag.
5) Travel Time....I would charge $20 for picking up paint (assuming one trip to paint store and delivering it to job site)
6) Use of Equipment and Depreciation. I would charge $20 (educated guess) for the use of my equipment (ladders, power tools, rollers, etc)
7) Liability Insurance / Disability Insurance. I would charge $15 (educated guess) for my these insurance.

Total for job would be $360.

What do you think??? What would you charge??? Am I undercutting my price?? Do you have a formula for insurances, say 25% of your fee??? Some people charge 50 cents a foot...that would be $500!!!!

Help!!!

Thanks, Zeebo
You charge what you need and then all you have to do is justify it.
Try coming with yearly numbers of everything you mentioned and more
and divide that by the man hours you sell a year (projected in your case).
Then your hourly charge includes everything and this way you recover overhead and profit
for every hour charged.
As far as materials go, try marking them up by a percentage.
 

·
Repair/Remodeling Tech.
Joined
·
1,645 Posts
Cost of material...I would charge at total of $105, which includes 3 gallons of paint @ $35, sand paper, roller sleeve, tray liner, rags and garbage bag
I'm sure it's just a miscalculation, and I'm sure it only happened due to rushing for this posting, etc...but that leaves the sand paper, roller sleeve, tray liner, rags and garbage bag coming out of YOUR pocket. Unless I added wrong, 35 x 3 = 105. Or maybe you reuse all these things and don't feel that charging for them is fair to the customer...if that's the case...that will be your downfall my friend. When I do painting (which is seldom, granted, so maybe that's why I do it this way) I buy a new liner, roller sleeve, etc for each job, charge 100% to the job (customer), and that leaves me the option to throw 'em away if I want. If I can get them clean and save 'em, then that's good for me.

That "downfall" comment shouldn't be taken too seriously ;) , I don't REALLY believe that buying $7 worth of supplies (even for every customer) is going to break the bank, but I'm not gonna do it on purpose either. If I forget to add something like that into a bid, well..I call it a lesson learned and carry on, but I try not to forget either :cheesygri
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
jproffer said:
I'm sure it's just a miscalculation, and I'm sure it only happened due to rushing for this posting, etc...but that leaves the sand paper, roller sleeve, tray liner, rags and garbage bag coming out of YOUR pocket. Unless I added wrong, 35 x 3 = 105. Or maybe you reuse all these things and don't feel that charging for them is fair to the customer...if that's the case...that will be your downfall my friend. When I do painting (which is seldom, granted, so maybe that's why I do it this way) I buy a new liner, roller sleeve, etc for each job, charge 100% to the job (customer), and that leaves me the option to throw 'em away if I want. If I can get them clean and save 'em, then that's good for me.

That "downfall" comment shouldn't be taken too seriously ;) , I don't REALLY believe that buying $7 worth of supplies (even for every customer) is going to break the bank, but I'm not gonna do it on purpose either. If I forget to add something like that into a bid, well..I call it a lesson learned and carry on, but I try not to forget either :cheesygri


Thanks Jim. You're right...I miscalculated and forgot to add in the cost of these supplies. I would charge an additional $20 to cover the cost of these supplies. Quite often, sleeves are good for 2-4 jobs. I would use the old one (after washing it out well...yes, putting them in the washing machine does work!!) in 2-3 future jobs and charge the customer about $4 per sleeve.

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Am I missing anything??? Did I miss a variable / expense that I did not factor in. Some painters would add in 5-10% towards the purchase of their next van / Truck / car.

I would be interested in hearing from other painters.....how much would you charge and what expenses do you consider for this job (or any job)

Thanks

Zeebo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
ProWallGuy said:
I didn't see any profit added in anywhere.
Here's a stupid question that I am going to ask....but when you say profit do you mean money made above the labor time charged??? I believe that I have factored in all expenses so the reimbursement that I received from charging for paint time, prep time, clean up set (minus materials) is the profit. Are you suggesting something else??

As a sole painter, should I be charging something above and beyond the labour time?? Please clarifiy. Thanks

Zeebo
 

·
Back from the dead...
Joined
·
6,646 Posts
Yes, after all expenses (labor, material overhead, your salary, etc.) there should be money left over for the 'company'. This is money i utulize to pay for more marketing/advertising, new equipment, etc. I would take your total figure above, and tack on 10-15% for profit.

The extra dollars got here and there from materials and such are not enough for profit IMO.

Plus, you say "the reimbursement that I received from charging for paint time, prep time, clean up set (minus materials) is the profit." All that is labor. Profit is money above and beyond all direct or indirect costs of the job.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Humble Abode said:
What's the exchange rate? What is $350cd in american dollors?

$40 Canadian converts to $34 US
$35 Canadian converts to $29 US

On average, what would a US painter charge per hour in your area??

Does your hourly rate factor in all expenses or is it specific to just painting time?? For example, I charge $35 - $40 / hour for painting time (which includes painting, setup, cleanup, prep). I then add on material cost and a charge for insurance and use of equipement / depreciation, and travel. I have tried to figure out an hourly rate that would encompass / factor in all of the above expenses. I have come up with about $60 - $65 Canadian (or $51 - $55 US) which includes the paint. If client provides paint, I drop my rate to $55 - $60 ($47 - $51 US). What do you think of these rates??????

Your other comments are helpful. Adding on an additional 10% - 15% for advertising, improvements, future vehicle purchase seems to make sense.

Living and learning I guess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zeebo
 

·
Painting Contractor
Joined
·
1,176 Posts
Zeebo said:
$40 Canadian converts to $34 US
$35 Canadian converts to $29 US

On average, what would a US painter charge per hour in your area??

Does your hourly rate factor in all expenses or is it specific to just painting time?? For example, I charge $35 - $40 / hour for painting time (which includes painting, setup, cleanup, prep). I then add on material cost and a charge for insurance and use of equipement / depreciation, and travel. I have tried to figure out an hourly rate that would encompass / factor in all of the above expenses. I have come up with about $60 - $65 Canadian (or $51 - $55 US) which includes the paint. If client provides paint, I drop my rate to $55 - $60 ($47 - $51 US). What do you think of these rates??????

Your other comments are helpful. Adding on an additional 10% - 15% for advertising, improvements, future vehicle purchase seems to make sense.

Living and learning I guess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zeebo
Your wage rates sound right. They are right in line with ours and I think in line with a lot of the painters/paperhangers here.

PWG is right though you need to add something in for your profit. It's always going to be different, obviously but here are some generic numbers. They are always based on dificulty.

High risk 15% to 35%
average risk 13% to 14%
moderate risk 10% to 12%
low risk 5% to 9%

Those are just examples you need to figure out what's right for you, your crew, your area, and your company.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
Zeebo said:
Here's a stupid question that I am going to ask....but when you say profit do you mean money made above the labor time charged??? I believe that I have factored in all expenses so the reimbursement that I received from charging for paint time, prep time, clean up set (minus materials) is the profit. Are you suggesting something else??

As a sole painter, should I be charging something above and beyond the labour time?? Please clarifiy. Thanks

Zeebo
I think it depends on what makes up your $40/hr rate.

If your man/hr. estimate is right on I think $360. is a fair price..should even account for about 10% profit. At 5.5 hrs. you've pretty much shot the whole day..but 360. is a nice round number.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
ProWallGuy said:
Yes, after all expenses (labor, material overhead, your salary, etc.) there should be money left over for the 'company'. This is money i utulize to pay for more marketing/advertising, new equipment, etc. I would take your total figure above, and tack on 10-15% for profit.

The extra dollars got here and there from materials and such are not enough for profit IMO.

Plus, you say "the reimbursement that I received from charging for paint time, prep time, clean up set (minus materials) is the profit." All that is labor. Profit is money above and beyond all direct or indirect costs of the job.

Very good information. Thank you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Humble Abode said:
Your wage rates sound right. They are right in line with ours and I think in line with a lot of the painters/paperhangers here.

PWG is right though you need to add something in for your profit. It's always going to be different, obviously but here are some generic numbers. They are always based on dificulty.

High risk 15% to 35%
average risk 13% to 14%
moderate risk 10% to 12%
low risk 5% to 9%

Those are just examples you need to figure out what's right for you, your crew, your area, and your company.

Thanks for the information. Helpful! Do you factor in a charge for use of equipment such as brushes, ladders, power tools, rollers, vacuum cleaners, etc. These tools are used and depreciate over time and eventually require replacement. Is this taken out of your profit, as you describe above, or do you add in 5% - 10% in your charge to customer. Just curious. Thanks.

Zeebo
 

·
Painting Contractor
Joined
·
1,176 Posts
Zeebo said:
Thanks for the information. Helpful! Do you factor in a charge for use of equipment such as brushes, ladders, power tools, rollers, vacuum cleaners, etc. These tools are used and depreciate over time and eventually require replacement. Is this taken out of your profit, as you describe above, or do you add in 5% - 10% in your charge to customer. Just curious. Thanks.

Zeebo
I figure it into my overhead percentage, which to be honest isn't as finely tuned as it ought to be. This is the first year I will have a full year of numbers to get a better handle on it.
 

·
Painting Contractor
Joined
·
1,881 Posts
If you recover overhead and profit hourly (by every hour charged),
every hour worked will give you the following:

Hourly payment of you and others for field work,
overhead recovery including your salary for running your
business, even compensation for selling jobs ( commission?)
Net profit.
You can collect the leftover money or give every dollar
coming to you a reason for doing so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
New question: Sorry to drag up old thread.

Sorry to drag up this new thread but I was going through the forum and had another question that pertains to this and pricing paint jobs.

Residential repaints:

What if you are putting on multiple coats, like 1 of primer and 2 of finish. How would you price that out. If I used Zeebo's orginal ino # of hours of painting, setup, clean-up and etc. and I estimated it to take 12.5 hrs to paint, setup etc for this job using 1 coat primer & 2 coats of finish am I right or fair to charge out like this (assuming my labor rate is $40.00) 12.5 x 40 = $500.00 plus the other costs that Zeebo showed (for example purposes only).

Is that the correct way to price it with multiple coats?

Thanks in advance,
 

·
Pro Painter
Joined
·
2,314 Posts
That sounds about right to me. You know your production rates, and what it costs per hour to do the job, then add your profit and other expenses. If that's what it costs, that's what it costs. After adding your extra expenses to that $500 you will be in the right ballpark. When a customer asks for a "ballpark" tell em "yankee stadium"!! :biggrin:

Honestly though, that sounds about right. 1000 sq. ft. of wall space is a BIG room! 3 coats of paint on a sucker that big is gonna cost big.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top