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Discussion Starter #1
This is a historic (1928) concrete apartment building (Bing or Google 1750 N. Serrano, Los Angeles).

These swing-out windows have built-in roll-down interior screens.

Do you work with historic buildings and windows? How would you deal with these windows? Do you know anyone who is a historic window specialist?





We are the asbestos & lead consultants on the project.
 

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Eater of sins.
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Good looking old building.
Doesn't the historic district have some kind of criteria to deal with refurbishing windows in contributing buildings?

I have done a lot of work in the historic residential district in Orange and the basic thing they want is if something needs to be removed you exchange like for like.
Meaning you take out wood casement windows you put back in wood casement windows.

Andy.
 

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A lot of wood window manufacturers (HURD and WeatherShield to name a couple) have historic restoration lines of windows. I know both have casements that open to a full 90 degrees (unless code requires limit locks on the sashes) and would look VERY much like what you have there now. Except for the hardware and the built in roll down screens. But I wouldn't think that would be a problem.

You could very likely find someone to restore them, but you'll end up spending a lot of $$$ and still have older single pane, inefficient windows.

I would personally look strongly at replacing them if it were me.
 

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I like Green things
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You could very likely find someone to restore them, but you'll end up spending a lot of $$$ and still have older single pane, inefficient windows.

I would personally look strongly at replacing them if it were me.
Bull. A single glazed window with a well fitting single glazed storm window is on par with most windows available today. A single glazed window will out last any double pane window 5x over with minimal maintenance.

I know a couple window sash guys on that coast.
 

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Bull. A single glazed window with a well fitting single glazed storm window is on par with most windows available today. A single glazed window will out last any double pane window 5x over with minimal maintenance.

I know a couple window sash guys on that coast.
I don't see any storms on them Darcy. And, being casements, I don't think you can put storms on them. While I agree that a re-worked, tight fitting casement would seal well, the single pane glass will still be inefficient as heck.
 

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It's LA for one, storms go on the inside of casements, just like those roll up screens.

I hate the mindset of tossing beautiful old windows because they are not efficient.

New windows would ruin that place.
Well, I learn something every day. Even an old fart :wheelchair: like me.

I didn't know anything about inside storms on old casement windows. I totally agree that restoring the old ones would be the most ideal.

Especially, if they have that old wavy glass. :thumbsup:

Go easy on the old guy Darcy.... :scooter:
 

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GC/carpenter
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CompleteW&D said:
Well, I learn something every day. Even an old fart :wheelchair: like me. I didn't know anything about inside storms on old casement windows. I totally agree that restoring the old ones would be the most ideal. Especially, if they have that old wavy glass. :thumbsup:
What causes the glass to be wavy?
 

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Glass is liquid and thus always sagging. I did a church a few years back where we replaced some glass. The top of the old panels were 3/16"ish thick and the bottom almost 1/2"..

Waviness can also be caused from the primitive process the panels were built with at the time..
 

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From what I see, they'll need to be removed and any framing issues dealt with. They're pretty easy to rebuild - I'd set aside 4 hours per pair for a rebuild (including glazing and paint), unless I have to fabricate intricate wooden parts. Net cost is comparable to a replacement.

Usually, the toughest part is finding the mechanism parts - whoever did maintenance should be able to tell you what fits / looks good. That goes double for the pull down screens.
 

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What causes the glass to be wavy?
They didn't have the technology "floating" or "fire polishing" glass like they do today.

If you look at really old windows from an angle, you often times see "waves" in the glass. They are natural occurring imperfections and fetch BIG TIME $$$ to replace, if you can even find any. You don't really see anything looking straight through them, they just look like regular clear glass. But, from an angle, they're kind of cool looking.

:thumbsup:
 

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I like Green things
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Glass is liquid and thus always sagging. I did a church a few years back where we replaced some glass. The top of the old panels were 3/16"ish thick and the bottom almost 1/2"..

Waviness can also be caused from the primitive process the panels were built with at the time..
It is not a liquid it is an amorphous solid.

Being a liquid is an age old misnomer that does not ever seem to go away.

Gravity is not pulling on it or causing it to sag.
 

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Not going to get in the argument about whether you should repair or replace, but if it's on the historic register, you will need windows with National Park Service approval.

Those replacements would be almost identical in construction and design to whats there in order to get their approval.

In my experience, restoring correctly will be significantly more expensive that replacing with a historic profile window.
 

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That's a lot of windows in that building. If just a couple are that bad ,I would repair. If all the windows need work , replacement may be the better route.
 

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I call it cast glass.. just poured into a mold..bubbles and all.

Just landfilled a bunch of it a few weeks ago:whistling
 

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Not going to get in the argument about whether you should repair or replace, but if it's on the historic register, you will need windows with National Park Service approval.

Those replacements would be almost identical in construction and design to whats there in order to get their approval.

In my experience, restoring correctly will be significantly more expensive that replacing with a historic profile window.
That's why I mentioned HURD and WeatherShield. Both have an extensive line up of windows approved by the NPS.

But I digress.... I don't want to get :hammer: again. :laughing:

I promise.... I :surrender:
 

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Glass....

I call it cast glass.. just poured into a mold..bubbles and all.

Just landfilled a bunch of it a few weeks ago:whistling
Oh man.... you could have gotten some serious coin for it if it was really old....
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Since I posted this, I've spoken with the architect and learned that the sashes were replaced long ago, and that the window assemblies were set into the concrete walls without proper water sealing. Many of the sills and sashes are rotted and/or eaten by termites.

I will pass along the names of any specialists you-all can recommend to the architect and manager.

Storm windows are rare in southern California. After all, this is an area where it is OK (other than appearance) to run water and sewer piping on the exterior of buildings, as it does not freeze.
 
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