Union Or Not
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The pro to being unionized is professionalism, and the con is that it is job protectionism.
How about insisting on professionalism, regardless of the pay? How about insisting that job protection is best served by a job well done?
So what are we doing in construction, missing out on all the opportunities to be had in Engineering, Science and Medicine? Oh, ...we have to work for a living.
We hate that.
How about insisting on professionalism, regardless of the pay? How about insisting that job protection is best served by a job well done?
So what are we doing in construction, missing out on all the opportunities to be had in Engineering, Science and Medicine? Oh, ...we have to work for a living.
We hate that.
Your job is not protected because you are in a union. Being in a union gives you certain things.GCMan said:
1. A minimum wage the contractor has to pay you.He can pay you more if he wants.
2. health benefits, IRA, pension.
3. In my former union: no sick days, no personal or vacation or holidays.
The union does try to get non-union shops to become union. Sometimes contractors elect to go union because they have trouble finding qualified people and know they will get well trained people.
However, guys get fired all the time from jobs for poor performance and have to look for work
among union companies. If the economy is slow they are out of work. If they
try to work non-union they will get thrown out of the union.
When you compare the union to the non-union the union may give you a few dollar an hour edge. Some non-union jobs are better deals because they offer all the benefits with only a small difference in the hourly rate.
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Theres cow crap all over the fields on both sides of the fence.
Bob
Bob
Heh heh
No seriously though, I was a union electrician for over a decade and I've been non-union as well so I 've seen both sides of the fence.
When I started and I was running jobs, I had guys avoid battery powered drills because it made a job take less time.
On a more subconsious and political level, and metaphorically speaking, the battery powered drill represents freedom and efficiency, a combination that strikes fear into the heart of die-hard union members.
Likewise, it was an absolute sin to bring any tool of your own onto the job even if it made your day go more smoothly.
I was a complete moron because I used a large tool pouch that enabled me to have just about any tool I needed throughout the day.
My boss once told somebody that he saw me complete 4 days worth of work in an 8 hour day. I didn't do it to take work away from somebody, I just did it.
I could go on and on about the way the Union works in Chicago and other places. It has its good points for sure, but independency is not a crime and many would have you believe otherwise.
Yeah, there's one guy to hold the nail while the other guy hits it!RJS said:
No seriously though, I was a union electrician for over a decade and I've been non-union as well so I 've seen both sides of the fence.
When I started and I was running jobs, I had guys avoid battery powered drills because it made a job take less time.
On a more subconsious and political level, and metaphorically speaking, the battery powered drill represents freedom and efficiency, a combination that strikes fear into the heart of die-hard union members.
Likewise, it was an absolute sin to bring any tool of your own onto the job even if it made your day go more smoothly.
I was a complete moron because I used a large tool pouch that enabled me to have just about any tool I needed throughout the day.
My boss once told somebody that he saw me complete 4 days worth of work in an 8 hour day. I didn't do it to take work away from somebody, I just did it.
I could go on and on about the way the Union works in Chicago and other places. It has its good points for sure, but independency is not a crime and many would have you believe otherwise.
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Idependency?.........I can think of a better word.
I had 2 carpenters write on their crew sheet "install subfacia........12LF........4.5hrs"
1 stinking 2x6, 8 ft off the ground, cost me 150 bucks to install.
The last 8 weeks as a Union contractor cost me over 48,000.00 in payroll and they barely framed 5000 sf and the BA wouldn't help out.
Your probably wondering why I let it go for 8 weeks, well, I wasn't the only name on the Union contract and my partners wouldn't let me pull the plug. What a screwed deal that was. However, I knew crap was going to hit the fan early on and made my partners cut me my share in advance, they did, or I'd have shot myself on the 2nd week.:cheesygri
There are a lot good things in the Union, none are geared to help the fella spending the money, and isn't that the point of biz? Production=Pay=Growth=Profit
Frickin crazy 90s
Bob
I had 2 carpenters write on their crew sheet "install subfacia........12LF........4.5hrs"
1 stinking 2x6, 8 ft off the ground, cost me 150 bucks to install.
The last 8 weeks as a Union contractor cost me over 48,000.00 in payroll and they barely framed 5000 sf and the BA wouldn't help out.
Your probably wondering why I let it go for 8 weeks, well, I wasn't the only name on the Union contract and my partners wouldn't let me pull the plug. What a screwed deal that was. However, I knew crap was going to hit the fan early on and made my partners cut me my share in advance, they did, or I'd have shot myself on the 2nd week.:cheesygri
There are a lot good things in the Union, none are geared to help the fella spending the money, and isn't that the point of biz? Production=Pay=Growth=Profit
Frickin crazy 90s
Bob
when you intentionally slow the work process down to create more work, you're actually hammering the nails into the coffin of the working class stiff in this country. that kind of activity has been weaking this country for the past 80 years or so...just ask the guys in detroit, they'll tell you all about how the increaded cost of unionization has wreaked havoc on the auto industry.
The rights of organized labor was a long fought battle with lots of misery and bloodshed. That right is still only loosely protected by the first amendment and that amendment did nothing for workers a hundred years ago from being fired upon by Federal and State troops. In many opinions todays unions are the bearers of the torch, keepers of the gate for the protections that so many died for.
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Old Doc Moore here in town delivered just about every kid in the county.
He told me one day he could tell the Union babbies from the non-Union the second they were born.
I asked how the hell he could do that and Doc Moore replied "Shoot, it was easy, I didn't have to spank the Union babbies to get em to cry."
Joke.......just a joke.:cheesygri
Bob
He told me one day he could tell the Union babbies from the non-Union the second they were born.
I asked how the hell he could do that and Doc Moore replied "Shoot, it was easy, I didn't have to spank the Union babbies to get em to cry."
Joke.......just a joke.:cheesygri
Bob
Let me clarify
Sorry Glasshouse, that came out all wrong.
I meant to say that it is not a crime to be an independent contractor and NOT use union labor. Yeah, they make it difficult as hell in some places but it's not illegal to be unaffiliated.
Unions are shooting themselves in the foot every day they defend the slackers among them and there are plenty of them.
Glasshousebltr said:
Sorry Glasshouse, that came out all wrong.
I meant to say that it is not a crime to be an independent contractor and NOT use union labor. Yeah, they make it difficult as hell in some places but it's not illegal to be unaffiliated.
Unions are shooting themselves in the foot every day they defend the slackers among them and there are plenty of them.
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Once upon a time the Union helped the working man, but even then with a desire for power. They were Communists. They still are, and hate competing with open shop.
Hate it for you, really. Good luck with your failed socialist agenda.
In the meantime, pick up a hammer and earn a living, Mr. Business Agent. You no working profit sucking vipers in union management.
If my boss won't pay enough, and I'm good enough, I'll engage the free market, and I don't need an organization for idiots. The coal miners you used to represent have all died of lung cancer. I hope to achieve the same with tobacco products and I don't need you to bury me.
Get lost.
Hate it for you, really. Good luck with your failed socialist agenda.
In the meantime, pick up a hammer and earn a living, Mr. Business Agent. You no working profit sucking vipers in union management.
If my boss won't pay enough, and I'm good enough, I'll engage the free market, and I don't need an organization for idiots. The coal miners you used to represent have all died of lung cancer. I hope to achieve the same with tobacco products and I don't need you to bury me.
Get lost.
You fellows from Unionsville should come check out Non-Unionsville. You might not like it. Paying employees , subcontractors, and contractors is not a high priority and the courts are not much help. Back in Unionsville there are good rivers to throw people in.
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Come on.....that isn't the real way it works. If you don't pay your help, you have no help. If you have no help, you have no biz.
A lot of those fellas down at the river skipping people, shouldn't have been in the biz to start with.
If you produce, your of value, people most always pay for value. With the occasional prick.
Simple math baby.
Bob
A lot of those fellas down at the river skipping people, shouldn't have been in the biz to start with.
If you produce, your of value, people most always pay for value. With the occasional prick.
Simple math baby.
Bob
I was foreman in a workzone today in anytown USA ...a guy on a steam roller was just sitting there...plenty of asphalt ahead of him...but he was...just sitting. I asked why he was just sitting there with all that asphalt still ahead and he said there was a hole up ahead that needed some more material thrown in it, or it would leave a pothole. I said "is that the material there?" .."yes".." 
and...is that a shovel on the back of your machine?"..."yes"...."hmm...ok...so why arent you putting material in the hole so you can keep working"..."putting the material in there is that guys job...he's over there fixing something else...so I wait for him...its not my job"
Typical union mentality...the "not my job" theory hard at work...at least something's hard at work I guess.
If it was my job, he would have been of a new mentality...the "YOU HAVE 3 SECONDS TO GET YOUR LAZY A$$ OFF THAT ROLLER AND GRAB A SHOVEL, OR YOU CAN GET THE F*** OFF MY JOB" mentality.
and...is that a shovel on the back of your machine?"..."yes"...."hmm...ok...so why arent you putting material in the hole so you can keep working"..."putting the material in there is that guys job...he's over there fixing something else...so I wait for him...its not my job"Typical union mentality...the "not my job" theory hard at work...at least something's hard at work I guess.
If it was my job, he would have been of a new mentality...the "YOU HAVE 3 SECONDS TO GET YOUR LAZY A$$ OFF THAT ROLLER AND GRAB A SHOVEL, OR YOU CAN GET THE F*** OFF MY JOB" mentality.
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:thumbsup: :thumbdown
The original intent the union was set up for was to protect the WORKER. I work in a local warehouse as a forklift operator,my service business is part-time, this is a closed shop warehouse but I have made myself clear to everyone there that the only thing that distinguishes me as union is the $25 a month they take from my check. Personally I say they all(union), and even the company itself could slide down a 50' razor into a pool of alcohol and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.From what I've seen in the number of years I've been there the employee cry for more money but want to do less work to receive it . The only reason I keep the job is the money is good for now and my biz is only part-time.
Paul
The original intent the union was set up for was to protect the WORKER. I work in a local warehouse as a forklift operator,my service business is part-time, this is a closed shop warehouse but I have made myself clear to everyone there that the only thing that distinguishes me as union is the $25 a month they take from my check. Personally I say they all(union), and even the company itself could slide down a 50' razor into a pool of alcohol and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.From what I've seen in the number of years I've been there the employee cry
for more money but want to do less work to receive it . The only reason I keep the job is the money is good for now and my biz is only part-time.Paul
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:thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown
BTW NOT!!!
:thumbdown :thumbdown BTW NOT!!!
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Ah ha! there ya go green! Perfect example of Union mentality! You can pull jobs for yourself to make extra doe, but the company can't take bids to compete for your place or pass extra work around you.
Hardly just.
Bob
Hardly just.
Bob
i worked as an electrician with a traveling ice show "Walt Disney's World on Ice" and had the displeasure of working union houses all over this great country.
i got more done in less time in south america using fewer, unskilled people communicating through an interpreter on equipment they had never seen than i did working local #1 in New York at Radio City. even the europeans husseled more than our union boys...i had a hard time beleiving it myself
i come from North Carolina, a traditionally nonunion state and until i witnissed it first hand, i too had some belief in the hipe that unions worked for the little guy........i must say that i am now will informed and not very impressed with union activity...keep it out of my state!
i got more done in less time in south america using fewer, unskilled people communicating through an interpreter on equipment they had never seen than i did working local #1 in New York at Radio City. even the europeans husseled more than our union boys...i had a hard time beleiving it myself
i come from North Carolina, a traditionally nonunion state and until i witnissed it first hand, i too had some belief in the hipe that unions worked for the little guy........i must say that i am now will informed and not very impressed with union activity...keep it out of my state!
Just A Quick Reply To My Orignal Question Union Or Not, First Of All I Would Like To Thank Everyone For Their Comments And Advice. It Seems The Union Is Not Going To Be The Way To Go For Me, It Has Come To My Attention That It Is Impossible To Get A Reply From The Reps I Contacted, Only One Even Spoke With Me His Advise Was That No One Is Hiring And It Was Not A Good Time To Be A Carpenter In My State,but If I Found A Union Owned Company To Get A Job With Them Then Try To Re-connect With Them. Went To A Couple Of Sites And Was Told Could Not Be Hired Witout Being Union, Too Much Hassle And Bs,and Life Is Too Short To Spend Time Trying To Work Around Playing Phone Tag When Bills Need To Be Paid....
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