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Unbelievable Internet prices for a deck

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#42 ·
asgoodasdead said:
yeah, I would really love to know where they pulled these prices from. cause they're nowhere near half actual cost. they say $7.80-9.50 sq ft TOTAL cost for my area. right. labor alone is more than that.
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Worse part is your customers have access to the site. I don't see how anyone can sell that battle.

I estimated a shower demo and rebuild, mud base, 10' tall wall, 135 sq. ft. 18x18 wall tile, Kerdi, drain, 20 sq. ft. floor tile. The owner supplies tile, I supply labor, disposal and everything else--$3700.00, they thought I was out of my mind, they didn't understand how going up 10' mattered.

Tom
 
#43 ·
Exactimate, insurance bidding software, wouldn't even give the home wise price at that cost for a full deck. Probably a bit more on the labor for just laying the deck boards.
 
#44 ·
tjbnwi said:
I don't understand how these 'estimators' come up with the pricing.

My parents home was damage by a tornado 4 years ago. The insurance estimate came back in the mid-30k. My estimate was in the high 80's. Tree service alone was in the mid 20's. We got a good and fair arbitrator, he awarded 82k plus the tree service. Took 3 1/2 years.

Tom
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Well... not a great comparison....insurence adjusters do have a vested interest.... however your point is well taken.... and apparently the arbitrator had reliable estimates to base his decision.
 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
Got to love insurance companies, they want you to pay for a service, then you have to fight them in court to claim the service you payed for.
 
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#46 ·
MTN REMODEL LLC said:
Well... not a great comparison....insurence adjusters do have a vested interest.... however your point is well taken.... and apparently the arbitrator had reliable estimates to base his decision.
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Vested interest or not, the insurance policy requires the insurance company to act "in good faith". The adjuster was presented with invoice for the work that was done to protect the property and to have the 11 trees removed from the roof of the home and 3 trees removed from the pole building. Doing what is necessary to protect the property from further damage is required by the policy. He refused to honor them based the cost off their estimate.

The lawyer has filed suited, claiming that the company did not act in good faith. It was more than a year which is the time limit in the policy. A judge found the companies actions caused the delay and has allowed the case to move forward. It maybe another 10 years before anything comes of this, but they still have to prepare for and defend against the suit.

Tom
 
#47 ·
tjbnwi said:
Vested interest or not, the insurance policy requires the insurance company to act "in good faith". The adjuster was presented with invoice for the work that was done to protect the property and to have the 11 trees removed from the roof of the home and 3 trees removed from the pole building. Doing what is necessary to protect the property from further damage is required by the policy. He refused to honor them based the cost off their estimate.

The lawyer has filed suited, claiming that the company did not act in good faith. It was more than a year which is the time limit in the policy. A judge found the companies actions caused the delay and has allowed the case to move forward. It maybe another 10 years before anything comes of this, but they still have to prepare for and defend against the suit.

Tom
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Tom.... I agree entirely with you inre to the problems/issues/lack of good faith in the insurance claims....

My above reference was only that an insurance companies poor/low estimate is not per se an indictment of estimating software... because the insurence company has an economic interest to use it incorrectly.

No question that certain insurence companies are unscrupulous in honoring claims..... (incidentally so are many claimants). That's life today.

Good luck in fighting the issue....
 
#48 ·
Back on the original subject of internet pricing: I get a lot of calls about installing gas fireplaces, or converting wood fireplaces to gas, in San Francisco. A typical price, soup to nuts, in your basic S.F. Victorian, is $12-15K. That's just what it is, and not for anything especially fancy, either. Permits are about $1K.

The ReadBeekon site right now says that a new gas fireplace, in San Francisco, including everything, will be between $300 and $500. That is a 24X to 50X difference between the internet price and the real world.

When I get a call, I send them to my web site where I have a page outlining the costs; I just can't spend time talking with someone who expects to pay one fiftieth of my price.
 
#49 ·
WOW..... I sure don't support/believe the estimating (sometimes disguised referral) services.... but I've never noticedthem that far out of line....:eek:

My 3ife and I will discuss (go round and round) about the value of Zillow. She argues they are innacurate... and I argue they are ballpark.

Really no argument involved... she is thinking in terms of pricing a home,... I'm think in terms of what kind of neighborhood is it.

But.... for a site to be as absurd as yours in SF should be a good thing sorta..... at least a HO should totally discount that site.... and not be arguing whether something is 19 or $20 a linear or sq ft.

(Could there be a San Francisco like in maybe a summer cabin in North Dakota where you just run the gas line to the fireplace, drill a couple holes in the line, and charge $500):thumbup::clap:
 
#53 ·
i punched in my zip code and it was the exact same price as the OP. That alone is cause for concern because our cost of living in North Idaho is nowhere near that of California. 250sqft deck ground level no railing with composite is 4k minimum here.
 
#55 · (Edited)
asgoodasdead said:
...looks like there's A LOT of juice in those numbers, though.
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Juice? Not really. We have maybe $1000-$2K of old-fireplace demo costs distributed in there - removing a couple of tons of firebox, chimney, clay flue, often with 2" of creosote inside. Sometimes we can climb up and down in the chase, sometimes not. Roof work. Parking costs in the city. S.F.-style labor costs. Manage the gas plumbing so that you don't have to pressure-test the whole house - if you don't do that, the homeowner might be in for a whole-house gas re-plumb. Home run for the electrical - let's hope the panel's legal. Stand for 6 to 8 separate inspections - S.F. doesn't have combo inspectors, so rough and finish each of mechanical, plumbing, electrical, and building. You might get plumbing and mechanical done together. Most prospective projects don't happen because the costs go much higher.

That is absolutely typical, nothing special at all. Special costs.

Edit: I ran the numbers online for the situation without gas already installed and then with gas. The difference? $10. It will cost $10, materials included, for a plumber to run gas to the fireplace.
 
#56 · (Edited)
I've been getting lots of traffic on my fireplace costs page, about 60 hits referred from C.T. in the last 24 hours. I should put up a C.T. welcome banner. The only direct feedback that I've gotten is from AsGoodAsDead, who thinks my pricing is insane. I'm sure he's not the only person who thinks that my pricing is high. Once I realized how much scrutiny that page was getting, I went back and looked at it again, and I don't plan to change it.

I have a few additional thoughts about it:

The first is that I stand by my pricing page. That page is meant to qualify prospective buyers. If you come to me about a fireplace installation in a home in San Francisco, that page is the starting point for our discussion. When all the shouting is done, you will have paid me at least that much money; in exchange, you'll have a beautiful fireplace, seamlessly installed into your beautiful home. Permits completed, bills paid, CO alarms installed, friends and neighbors envious. You will sleep soundly at night. Grown-up contracting, on a small project scale.

The second thought is that this case illustrates why pricing questions and going-rate discussions don't make much sense on C.T. You can install a gas fireplace for far less in other places. You can put a direct-vent flue out the side of the house, because you're not on the property line. Your permits might cost 1/3 of mine, and you might have to stand for 1 or 2 inspections - with only $300 in permit costs, your customer might be OK with a much less expensive fireplace. Your overhead and labor costs may be way lower than mine. Your cost of living may be lower than mine. Your customers may have different expectations. Etc. The result is a different price.

Still, that internet pricing is a joke.
 
#60 · (Edited)
asgoodasdead said:
I'm not a plumber or electrician, but $2,500 to install a shutoff valve seems like a pretty juicy number to me. the rest I'm not gonna argue cause I have no idea
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No, installing a shutoff wouldn't be that expensive; I put that in there as an example of how it might be simpler. It never is, though.

People read that page, call me up and tell me I'm crazy - don't I know that a gas fireplace costs $2,000 - make a few other calls and get the shimmy shimmy, then if they have the budget, they call me back. If they don't have the budget they don't get a fireplace, from me or anyone else.

Bob
 
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