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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
hello: maybe someone can help me.:clap:
I need to get into compliance an existing 1 hour UL fire rated wall.
The wall was made out with 6",20 gauge studs [email protected] 5/8" drywall 1 X on each side, 5" insulation. I been told by engineers to add 2- 5/8" on each side but I need to put in the PLANS for city approval.
What I need is to get the UL # so I can find it and forward it to my incompetent architect :censored: so he can put in the plan.

I do appreciate your help guys.:thumbsup:
Claudio, Thank you

Ps: owner don't want to demolish existing wall.
 

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Pompass Ass
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hello: maybe someone can help me.:clap:
I need to get into compliance an existing 1 hour UL fire rated wall.
The wall was made out with 6",20 gauge studs [email protected] 5/8" drywall 1 X on each side, 5" insulation. I been told by engineers to add 2- 5/8" on each side but I need to put in the PLANS for city approval.
What I need is to get the UL # so I can find it and forward it to my incompetent architect :censored: so he can put in the plan.

I do appreciate your help guys.:thumbsup:
Claudio, Thank you

Ps: owner don't want to demolish existing wall.
You get 20 minutes for each layer of Type X, so 3 layers 60 minutes, stud 20 minutes, insulation 20 minutes, 3 layers of Type X 60 minutes.

That is not a 3 hour rated wall assmebly, it is a 2 hour 40 minute wall.
 

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Dave from Macatawa
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Google the 3hour UL assembly and you will find you need "C" rated 5/8 not just "X". Screw pattern, stagger joints, etc. there are any number of assemblies that work and seveal different #'s. You have to identify your building type for the UL # to apply in many cases.

your architect should have the UL book on line or in his office. It is about 700 pages.

I can't imagine where you need a 3hr assembly? I park cars under dwellings and that requires a 2hr separation. Fire protection system, building type, building system, etc are all required so this is not a one look up answer.
 

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Google "Gypsum association fire resistance design handbook". That will give you all the assemblies you could wish for.

Several guides refer to three layers 1/2" type X, which is exceeded by three layers 5/8 type X.

As per that guide, three layers each side=three hour assembly.
 

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Dave from Macatawa
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Just had a flash back to a bad inspection re 2hr assembly in gyp, the ends had to lap full. the City of Grand Rapids inspector took the book to the literal drawing. had a rework on that one.
 

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Architect
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I'm guessing this is due to an occupancy separation. I'd stick it back on the architect with an RFI. Could be the architect has determined a 3 hr. separation is not required, he is the one that needs to talk to the AHJ.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
UL 3hours drywall partition

Thank you for your responses.
The architect doesn't know where he can find it You all can imagine how I feel about it I been dealing with this guy for almost TWO years.
I am at Miami-dade county, Florida.
All I need is to find it in the UL book (does the difficult part) I don't have the book. So this guy can put it in the plans with the UL DESCRIPTION.
It has to be that I can just put two more layer of 5/8" drywall 1 hour fire rated on each side.

THANK YOU
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have another one for you.
I am fixing a house in City of Doral, the townhouse kitchen (mysteriously) caught fire the city claimed that the structure (second floor) hambro system was damaged, I check it myself and it was not visual cracks on concrete or damage to the metal, I get and structural engineer to check it out he signs me a letter saying the structure was not damaged.
Still the city official did not accept the Letter from the engineer I had to do a load test for the second floor per Miami Dade county code.
Ok, had to find another Structural Engineer who approve the Load Test, I had to do the load 1 foot of water on 300 square feet for three days.
This guys here are difficult.
 

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3 layers 5/8 type X -each side -3 5/8 therma fiber insulation . If its a shaft you need core board and core stud/track.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank you D-RoCK what I need IS "the most difficult" is to get the right page from the book showing a 6" inch metal stud + insulation + three 5/8 inch drywall so we can put in the plans THAT'S THE DIFFICULT PART an showing UL# with details
 

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Here it is on a silver platter

Thank you D-RoCK what I need IS "the most difficult" is to get the right page from the book showing a 6" inch metal stud + insulation + three 5/8 inch drywall so we can put in the plans THAT'S THE DIFFICULT PART an showing UL# with details
This really shouldn't be all that difficult for you :wallbash:, and is inexcusable for the architect:censored:

From the "2009 Gypsum Association fire resistance design manual"

Exhibit 2925 Pg 56. UL #V438

1 5/8" metal studs 24" OC. Three layers 5/8" Type X each side.


General rules and conditions pg 9:

#14 Metal studs are nominal 25ga
#15 Stud depths greater than those specified shall be permitted. Heavier gauge metal studs than those specified shall be permitted

I would say more, but I'm done scolding you
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hello ANTI-WINGNUT:
LET ME TELL YOU: I DO HAVE AN EXISTING WALL there MADE OUT OF 6" Metal stud with 5/8" drywall on each side 18 feet height.
That's already there ....in place The owner does not want to Demo it, me either. industrial/commercial units.
I been searching in the Underwriters Laboratories directory all day ( partially all day) code by code I did send them a message; I did contacted Georgia Pacific they sent me the same info with stud 1 5/8 I have that in the plan already BUT I Have a 6 inch stud installed already the wall is 18 feet height 150 feet long I should be able to get the right info and put in the plan three different engineers had come to the job one said install 2 more layer of 5/8 inch drywall (that's logical ) on each side that should be it BUT MIAMI DADE COUNTY WILL NOT ACCEPT A LETTER FROM ANY ENGINEER IT HAS TO BE IN THE PLAN WITH THE UL# AND I CAN'T FIND IT. I STARTED MY SEARCH TODAY AND I WILL FIND IT.
Thank you for your help any way. I will keep searching.
 

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IT HAS TO BE IN THE PLAN WITH THE UL# AND I CAN'T FIND IT. I STARTED MY SEARCH TODAY AND I WILL FIND IT.
I gave you the UL number, and the Gypsum associations UL accepted exceptions. You are allowed to substitute heavier and deeper studs, and on a closer center than what was originally exhibited in V438. It's all there on pg 9.

Go to www.gypsum.org You have everything you need
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
hello to my new friends:
I found this early today BUT the problem here in Miami-Dade is that the city will not accept changes whta I have existing is 6" with 5/8 each side.
The description below says 1/2 inch drywall and believe me they will turn down the inspection.
SYSTEM DESCRIPTION
Construct partition in accordance with require-ments of tested and
approved designs to obtain the follow-ing:
Sound Rating: STC/MTC not less than 65/61; Riverbanks Acoustical
Laboratories Test No. TL-87-143.
Fire-Resistance Rating: 3 hour minimum, ASTM E 119, UL Design
No. U455.
OMIT BELOW DESCRIPTION IF PARTITION IS
ADEQUATELY DETAILED ON DRAWINGS. SEE
DRAWING COORDINATION SHEETS. EDIT CAREFULLY
TO AVOID CONFLICTING PERFORMANCE AND
DESCRIPTIVE REQUIREMENTS.
Description: Construct partition as follows:

Wall Thickness: 9-1/2 inches.Studs: 6 inches deep.
wall board, and around panel perimeter.
Wall Panels: 3 layers 1/2 inch thick on each side of
partition.
Insulation: 5 inches thick.
DEFINITIONS
STC/MTC: S
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hello Anti-wingnut:
I will look into it tomorrow morning, I do appreciate the info. I was looking for what you are telling me; it make sense if you get a heavier deeper stud it should be better but this guys won't buckle. If I can get in the plan and is in the book with the UL# they Have to accept it.
Thank you again.
 

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He has to buckle, it is right there in the gypsum association's UL fire-rated assembly book. Buy a hard copy of the book if you need to.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Great I already downloaded the manual. Here is what you talked about.
GA-600-2009 FIRE RESISTANCE DESIGN MANUAL 9

14. Metal studs and runners are nominal 25 gage
unless otherwise specified.
15. Greater stud sizes (depths) shall be permitted to be
used in metal- or wood-stud systems. Metal studs of
heavier gage than those tested shall be permitted.
The assigned rating of any load-bearing system
shall also apply to the same system when used as a
nonload-bearing system. Indicated stud spacings
are maximums.
Thanks again, in a place where logic works THIS WOULD WORK !!!
I will let you know if works here will take me probably a month.
 

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Great I already downloaded the manual. Here is what you talked about.
GA-600-2009 FIRE RESISTANCE DESIGN MANUAL 9

14. Metal studs and runners are nominal 25 gage
unless otherwise specified.
15. Greater stud sizes (depths) shall be permitted to be
used in metal- or wood-stud systems. Metal studs of
heavier gage than those tested shall be permitted.
The assigned rating of any load-bearing system
shall also apply to the same system when used as a
nonload-bearing system. Indicated stud spacings
are maximums.
Thanks again, in a place where logic works THIS WOULD WORK !!!
I will let you know if works here will take me probably a month.
This is so utterly utterly rudimentary for any architect, it begs the question of why he can't do it. Come on, level with us; are you really a GC, and is there really a architect involved with this project? Somehow I feel that some major professional corners are being cut on this project
 
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