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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I stepped into this design late, after someone had laid it out, and was asked to look at the arrangement and have a go at some changes. One challenge I face is the U-turn staircase, one which was previously done with a total rise less than what we need now.

A ceiling raise and a floorframe thickness boost (needed for spans) created the need for 16 total risers where before there were 14. The rooms were all planned, and I am trying to squeeze 16 into the same space, by doing some winder treads.

Count your steps going up. When you step up to 16, you land on the main floor.

Need to keep the same stair footprint, because enlarging it wrecks other elements of the program.

See the pics, below.

Rise is a comfortable 7-9/16 and runs are all trying for 10. The straight treads are exactly ten, and I am trying for a 6" minimum at the inside of each kite, with 10 for the run at a walkline of about 12 inches.

That 3'2" is rough to rough, and is the same across the landing, so 37" wall finish to finish.

There is nothing beneath this staircase, so the funky winder part can be platformed and boxed, with straight-run short carriages framing the little bottom and even smaller top runs.

I saw something close to this in a 100-year old book on stairbuilding, the straight rise to a small landing, a turn of winders, and a short straight to the top. The one I saw had a larger center and was curved on the outside. This one ought to work.

But it is a while before it gets built, and I am going to see if I can work out a better scheme.

Suggestions are appreciated.
 

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Hack
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A better scheme is definitely a good idea.
Where I live you are only allowed a maximum of three winder treads, with each tread not deviating more or less than 30°.
Stairs with angled treads...I'm not sure that they can be used outside of a curved staircase.
Good luck!
 

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code compliance is defiantly to be considered here.
don't get yourself jammed up because some architect didn't do his / her homework
 

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If you have space, add a more decorative step that projects out into the lower room, then add a single step at the landing. No winders at all. You just have to make sure you have / make headroom.

I couldn't get those approved around here in some jurisdictions for sure
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Code is not relevant here, as the build is in part of that 95 percent of the country's land mass where there is no plans check, and no inspection.

Sticking out the starter step is not an option.
 

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Looks like it's going to be tough to squeeze in the stairs in the space allocated. With winders the landing where the stairs turn is eliminated and that is where the stairs wind and as pointed out one is not supposed to be trimming the treadwidth along a straight run.

Winders are more dangerous than regular stairs and most accidents in houses occur on stairs.

Code is relevant if for no other reason than giving a lawyer prime ammunition for a lawsuit if someone busts their butt falling down the stairs if the stairs aren't built to code.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
One I built near where this one will be built. Not a single straight tread in the whole 14-riser arrangement. And straight walls.

I could squeeze this new thing by steepening the pitch with a shorter run (about 9 1/2") and steeper rise (8 1/16"), but it goes in a one story house with full finished walkout basement under, the lower level containing bedrooms, baths, media room, etc.

Want a more "comfortable" stair for this important passageway.

In big parts of New England, the yankees there don't have a concern for comfort, permitting in their local codes stairs with runs as short as 9" and rises up to 8 1/4"
 

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From the top down, try building the upper part straight across, with a conventional landing, then a step down onto an angled stair (inside edge matches up with the wall edges), then a step down onto basically a trapezoidal landing, then straight stairs down the rest of the way. In the dark with someone who is unfamiliar with the stairs, the single angled step is the hazard, and has landings next to it. Also imagine backing down or up carrying one end of a couch...

It may not meet a code you don't need to comply with, but it helps with the slip/fall issues compared to winders. The NFPA has been the one driving the winder issue in codes, since firefighters can have very poor visibility in a burning house. Think about how it's going to be used to decide what your best option is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Here are two more workouts quickly done using Sketchup.

15 risers at 8-1/16, runs at a smidge under 10, and a straightforward one-step landing turn.

16 risers at 7-9/16, same pinched-10 runs, and a three-kite turn. To build this one, I would lay up the hardwood floor planking parallel to each tread nosing, and change species of nosings to something lighter or darker than the species used for the rest of the stairs. Give a little visual cue to where the steps are on that landing.

If all is red oak, then maybe clear sap hard maple for the nosings, or black walnut.

You are going to have to shuffle-step when climbing or descending the three-kite one, so there ought to be something visual there to help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
And here is a really comfy one, a 17-rise array, tread run at 10 and rise at a scootch under 7-1/8". Lazy man's stair.

Six-kite winder. I did not spread the treads out in their y-axis yet.

Gonna try it with 5 kites and go back to a 16-rise at 7-9/16"
 

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Head Light Bulb Changer
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Your first drawings look dangerous and just plain goofy.

Here are two more workouts quickly done using Sketchup.

15 risers at 8-1/16, runs at a smidge under 10, and a straightforward one-step landing turn.

16 risers at 7-9/16, same pinched-10 runs, and a three-kite turn. To build this one, I would lay up the hardwood floor planking parallel to each tread nosing, and change species of nosings to something lighter or darker than the species used for the rest of the stairs. Give a little visual cue to where the steps are on that landing.

If all is red oak, then maybe clear sap hard maple for the nosings, or black walnut.

You are going to have to shuffle-step when climbing or descending the three-kite one, so there ought to be something visual there to help.
Why the kite steps? Visual? HO likes them? I would prefer a simple step landing. JMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It's because of the space requirement. I would like to have it as a simple straight run, but this must have a footprint 80-1/2" wide by 96" long, with a total rise of 121".

Let's see your solutions.
 

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Hack
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Here are two more workouts quickly done using Sketchup.

15 risers at 8-1/16, runs at a smidge under 10, and a straightforward one-step landing turn.

16 risers at 7-9/16, same pinched-10 runs, and a three-kite turn. To build this one, I would lay up the hardwood floor planking parallel to each tread nosing, and change species of nosings to something lighter or darker than the species used for the rest of the stairs. Give a little visual cue to where the steps are on that landing.

If all is red oak, then maybe clear sap hard maple for the nosings, or black walnut.

You are going to have to shuffle-step when climbing or descending the three-kite one, so there ought to be something visual there to help.
Of all the layouts you've posted, I like the first one in this post the best.
 
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