Trusses?

ClemS said:

I'm 29. Been a framer for 13 years. Never framed a truss roof. Can't still figure out what the pro's of framing one would be, except putting money in someone's pocket. Any takers?

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I personally live to stick frame, but trusses are valuable in cases of freespanning large areas without center support. That's all I have for you.:thumbsup:

loneframer said:

I personally live to stick frame, but trusses are valuable in cases of freespanning large areas without center support. That's all I have for you.:thumbsup:

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i've seen these things sag like ten mother*****ers. are they really so great?:blink:

ClemS said:

i've seen these things sag like ten mother*****ers. are they really so great?:blink:

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If the sag, they were installed wrong, damaged or not built properly.

Yes Trusses are great in when used in the proper circumstance, like most houses.

i mean HONESTLY. a shatload of 2x4s spiked together with gusset plates?? IMHO garbage.

bwalley said:

If the sag, they were installed wrong, damaged or not built properly.

Yes Trusses are great in when used in the proper circumstance, like most houses.

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who's to take liability?

You nailed it... kind of. They're engineered to place the loads on the bearing walls using a push/pull method. But... basically yeah it's much faster and it puts money in the builder's pocket because most "framers" can lay out 24 o.c. But I'm not an engineer, and cannot confirm if it is superior. Let's just say, when the job is done and you walk away from a trussed roof and one that is stick framed your sense of satisfaction is vastly different.

in my opinion trusses are garbage. here's why.

1. the connections are IffY! I've dismantled a few truss roofs even though I never built one. Gusset plates hold like shat compared to 16d nails.

2. all you have is fiber strength of a 2x4 once the gusset fails

3. multiple connections along the truss allow for more movement. thus saggage and creep.

Don't underestimate those stamped gusset plates. Try to remove one that's on a properly installed and braced truss, and you'd swear they could grip the world.

Willie T said:

Don't underestimate those stamped gusset plates. Try to remove one, and you'd swear they could grip the world.

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they come right off with a roof shovel. who you kidding?

loneframer said:

I personally live to stick frame, but trusses are valuable in cases of freespanning large areas without center support. That's all I have for you.:thumbsup:

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you're a handsome red haired devil loneframer. matter of fact, you may be the handsomest framer on this here forum at this given time in your age group :thumbup:

Clem, don't knock it until you've tried it. I would much prefer to stick frame, but that's from a personal gratification standpoint. The bottom line is that you are not responsible for the design of the structure. If an engineer signs off on it, and they do almost exclusively here in Columbus, then the structural sense it makes to us is null and void. Makes you question the schooling versus in field practice doesn't it?

mccarty.74 said:

Clem, don't knock it until you've tried it. I would much prefer to stick frame, but that's from a personal gratification standpoint. The bottom line is that you are not responsible for the design of the structure. If an engineer signs off on it, and they do almost exclusively here in Columbus, then the structural sense it makes to us is null and void. Makes you question the schooling versus in field practice doesn't it?

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i'm a strong believer in that carpentry is a craft. i also believe that any given engineer couldn't frame worth a shat on any given day of the week, even though they may be very well schooled. that being said, i believe the point is moot :clap:
the fact that someone may sign off on something of questionable value may or may not be valid here. I'm asking for personal opinion from fellow craftsmen.
i am fully aware that 90 percent of ALL framing is panelized and trussed. I myself will NEVER frame trusses or panel walls or modular. I just don't LIKE it. I am asking OPINION.

I'm agreeing with you. I can't stand a 2x4 rafter on top of some randomly placed blocking. All I'm saying is, if I bid on a set of prints and say to the builder that this is an insufficient roofing system, he's going to laugh in my face. That being said, if I only had the opportunity to bid on stick-frames I couldn't fill 6 months of a schedule here. But I guess I don't anyway, as I've been relegated to the world of small remodels in the last year and a half. No offense intended to remodelers who read this post.

mccarty.74 said:

I'm agreeing with you. I can't stand a 2x4 rafter on top of some randomly placed blocking. All I'm saying is, if I bid on a set of prints and say to the builder that this is an insufficient roofing system, he's going to laugh in my face. That being said, if I only had the opportunity to bid on stick-frames I couldn't fill 6 months of a schedule here. But I guess I don't anyway, as I've been relegated to the world of small remodels in the last year and a half. No offense intended to remodelers who read this post.

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my sole business is remodels. I find more challenge in these teeny brain teezers than in monster homes. not to say that I don't do new frames. but remodels is where it's at right now. trusses to me are like smartcars. everyones's happy with them but I just don't see them surviving a collision. or a heavy side wind. or a rock. or a squirrel.

Count your blessings. I'm not building structure, I'm doing closet frames and knee-walls. At this point I'd do a trussed roof pro-bono just to get the taste again.

OPINION: You were one year old when I got my GC license. At that time I had been both framing stick roofs and installing trusses for about 20 years. I liked stick framing better, and still do. But I have lived through somewhere around thirty hurricanes and worked rebuilding both roof systems damaged (more like "ravaged") by those storms. Neither survived very well, but one fact struck me as interesting. In stick framed homes, the entire roof was usually just plain "gone". Nowhere to be found. Parts of trussed roofs were often wiped out too. But I'd say in 60 or 70 percent of those roofs, a substantial portion of the roof remained.

When you open conventionally framed roofs with a big blow like our 'canes, they pretty much get ripped on back, flipping out the rafters one after the other in relatively quick succession. Trusses seem to each act independently of the others. You may see the sheathing peeled off all of them, but more often than not about half of them remain standing....... although, admittedly, usually leaning somewhat.

Does this make one or the other better? I don't know. But I have many times seen where much of the stuff in the attic of truss framed houses stayed there while conventionally framed roofs deposited everything on the floor below.

Now as for fires................ Give me Timber Framing any day.... Conventional framing next.... and trusses last. They ain't too good in flames.

My opinion................... You just might want to let a few more years of observation pass before making too harsh a judgement, one way or the other.

Anything "engineered" is something that had to be looked at and calc'd to achieve a minimum standard that is not in the standard code books, like joist/rafter spans.

I lost a cut roof job because the span was soooo great that my costs to make it work stick-framed rose above the truss guy's.

Trusses make the truss guy money and allow for cheaper (and less skilled) framers to frame the structure. Up here I battle 3 truss plants - one even supplies walls and trusses. Those framers are called wall tippers by the real framers.

Everything has its place in the grand scheme of things. I prefer to cut rafters because I feel the quality is much better.

I can't do much about it though if the plans say trusses.

You want scary? Think of TJI's in a fire and how quickly it would go through that 3/8" OSB.

ClemS said:

in my opinion trusses are garbage. here's why.

1. the connections are IffY! I've dismantled a few truss roofs even though I never built one. Gusset plates hold like shat compared to 16d nails.

2. all you have is fiber strength of a 2x4 once the gusset fails

3. multiple connections along the truss allow for more movement. thus saggage and creep.

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#1: You haven't seen good trusses in your life, apparently.

#2: You don't live in hurricane or tornado country either.

#3: You don't know "shat" about trusses or engineering.

I don't know where you get your ideas, but buddy, at 29, what do you really know? There is nothing like the craftsmanship of hand cutting a great roof, within limitations...that said, well designed and engineered trusses are the top of the line for supporting roofs and transferring loads to walls...exactly what they are designed for.

Next time you make broad statements about something, try to remember you didn't invent the wheel...you are simply watching it go 'round and 'round. :thumbsup: