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Why doesn't the gov. offer some kind of grants for co. that will train the young in their trade. I find myself teaching for about 1/3 of my man hours maybe more. Then as soon as they learn a little it becomes tuff to hang on to them. They seek better $. I think it might benifit everybody if the gov. offered some kind of program based on outcome of youth performance. Any thoughts?
 

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Glasshousebltr said:
Why doesn't the gov. offer some kind of grants for co. that will train the young in their trade. I find myself teaching for about 1/3 of my man hours maybe more. Then as soon as they learn a little it becomes tuff to hang on to them. They seek better $. I think it might benifit everybody if the gov. offered some kind of program based on outcome of youth performance. Any thoughts?
I "not to long ago" graduated from the detroit union carpenters apprenticeship school. I worked for my employer to start being very green at 14 dollars an hour commercial pay every 6 months I would get a 15 percent raise of journey men pay 27.87 an hour. I would get sent to school every other week one day for 8 hours and get payed for that day. All I would pay for is books and tuition wich is about 150 dollars a class for four years until I got my journeymans card. Ive been tought everything from concrete forms to metal studs and drywall to advanced prints "all aspects of carpentry" but by my second year of school I guarantee myself, or any other second year apprentice could get just as much production done as any journeyman for half the cost. I made my employer allot of money while I was an apprentice even with him paying for my schooling. I think your either not training them well enough or not paying them what they deserve to keep them. And why train them if there going to take your teachings and skills to your competitors?
 

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OH HO HO! The Union has arrived. Yea! thats what it is buddy! I need to pay them more.

I'll bet I know more about the union then you will ever see or hear, and let me tell ya buddy it aint no stinking pretty pic.

The only reason you made your boss alot of money is because the union is there driving the commercial rates so high that we have to update our forign policy every quarter, all because it jerks the $hit out of our overall economy.

Do you really think the union cares about you or your family.

Get out a calculator, take your package, multiply it by the number of heads at your last meeting, set that number aside as N.

Take your dues and do the same. Now take the intrest you could make off N add it to the dues of your hall, then multiply that times all the brotherhood halls.

Abra stinking kadabra, now the union cares.

Bob
 

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OSHA gives consistant grants to the NRCA for saftey training.

Also someone correct me if I am wrong but OSAH will also come out to your location and do a training session for free, I think.

LOL one more thing many manufacturer's offer all sorts of training programs for evetyhing from the business managers, salesmen, and installers. (At least in the roofing industry that is).
 

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Glasshousebltr said:
OH HO HO! The Union has arrived. Yea! thats what it is buddy! I need to pay them more.

I'll bet I know more about the union then you will ever see or hear, and let me tell ya buddy it aint no stinking pretty pic.

The only reason you made your boss alot of money is because the union is there driving the commercial rates so high that we have to update our forign policy every quarter, all because it jerks the $hit out of our overall economy.

Do you really think the union cares about you or your family.

Get out a calculator, take your package, multiply it by the number of heads at your last meeting, set that number aside as N.

Take your dues and do the same. Now take the intrest you could make off N add it to the dues of your hall, then multiply that times all the brotherhood halls.

Abra stinking kadabra, now the union cares.

Bob




All I know is I have dental, blue cross, pension and I can retire at age 49 and a half. And I got to go to school to learn everything I think my familys very fortunate! And I dont mind paying twenty bucks a month in dues.
 

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I have teeth.

I'm not a fan of benefits at all really. They've never interested me one bit, and insterested me even less once I got into sales.

I'll tell you what I am a fan of. Pay per performance. You want to earn more money? Work harder and smarter and earn it. I've been paying my own insurance for many years now and haven't complained once. After all why should I expect ANYONE ELSE to pay for my health insurance? I'd personally prefer to not have ANY benefits and have a higher rate of pay to do what I please with MY money. Why should I expect anyone else to save for my retirement? I'm no democrat I don't need anyone elses assistance to run my life.

Now onto unions because I am not a fan of those either. Why should person A earn as much as person B? If person A works harder and has a better quality of workmanship than person B; I feel person A deserves more money. Also there are many many companies out there that offer comprable pay and benefits as the unions without the hassels of the unions. I'd close down my company before I'd let it go Union, but if I were still and installer I'd be in the union. Oh yeah the last thing I dislike about unions is the propaganda they spread that if you are not union you do poor quality work. I've seen union and non union hacks.
 

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Grumpy, You get bennies. It's called money. If you're good at business, you'll have plenty of it. Most people just need the security that a 9-5 provides otherwise everybody would be in business.
Two things that I remember well. A long time ago when I was working a 9-5 the owner told me, "If I couldn't make $500.00 a day, I wouldn't be here.". When I first ventured out on my own, the owner of a large company congratulated me on taking the leap and said, "You'll never get rich working for somebody else.".

Does anyone remember a govt. program called CETA or something like that? It was some sort of grant program for on-the-job training.
 

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Grumpy said:
I have teeth.

I'm not a fan of benefits at all really. They've never interested me one bit, and insterested me even less once I got into sales.

I'll tell you what I am a fan of. Pay per performance. You want to earn more money? Work harder and smarter and earn it. I've been paying my own insurance for many years now and haven't complained once. After all why should I expect ANYONE ELSE to pay for my health insurance? I'd personally prefer to not have ANY benefits and have a higher rate of pay to do what I please with MY money. Why should I expect anyone else to save for my retirement? I'm no democrat I don't need anyone elses assistance to run my life.

Now onto unions because I am not a fan of those either. Why should person A earn as much as person B? If person A works harder and has a better quality of workmanship than person B; I feel person A deserves more money. Also there are many many companies out there that offer comprable pay and benefits as the unions without the hassels of the unions. I'd close down my company before I'd let it go Union, but if I were still and installer I'd be in the union. Oh yeah the last thing I dislike about unions is the propaganda they spread that if you are not union you do poor quality work. I've seen union and non union hacks.

Your obviously your own boss, you can afford to pay your own benys. But do you pay your emlpoyees a good enough wage to have health, vision, retirement, and vacation if you do good but I think your own of the few non union companys that do. And union scale is the minimum there employer pays his employees for a good quality of life. Believe me if your more skilled than the average journeymen youll get payed more theres formans pay, lay out mans pay ,superintendants pay you can get payed above scale. I dont get payed above scale but I get a nice fat bonus at the company christmas party. I would agree with you that there are allot of card buying hacks in the union but most of the time there layed off begging for a job at the hall. I dont think its union guys saying that all non union guys are hacks I think it easier for the guys with the rusty bucket of tools to start some fly by night buisness and hack somebodys basement up than for somebody to start a union company where you have to be bonded and have so much start up capitol. My main goal is to someday own my own production trim buisness wich will then lead in to custom. Theres nothing wrong with non union contractors as long as they pay there men a decent wage.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Your right, decent wage, but the union doesn't work like that. It's my opinion if a man makes 50,000 a year he should be able to sign more than an X for his name.

Example: On the union carpenters test it asks if you can pile drive. Yes? Welcome brother.

What kinda crab is that? .....ah, hey dude, he can hit a stake with a hammer, he's cool, they should give him some extra bucks for that.

Stinkin nuts

Example: It's 10 oclock! everybody break!.......any good carpenter knows that the day works at speeds......hang ups slow you down and get you out of rythum.....most of the time it takes an hour or so for things to fall back into sinc......the rythum is where you get your production/money and can't be clocked.......so....if you spend your rythum on your a$$ eating twinkies you aint making nobody $hit.

It's a simple formula Job+(10:00UB+3:00UB)=crap

Bob
 

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I've only been my own boss for less than a year now. If you reread my post you will see I made it a point to speak back in the past to illustrate that I had this thought process long before I was my own boss.

I have always felt that workers should be compensated on pay per performance, not hourly or salary.
 

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Glasshousebltr said:
Your right, decent wage, but the union doesn't work like that. It's my opinion if a man makes 50,000 a year he should be able to sign more than an X for his name.

Example: On the union carpenters test it asks if you can pile drive. Yes? Welcome brother.

What kinda crab is that? .....ah, hey dude, he can hit a stake with a hammer, he's cool, they should give him some extra bucks for that.

Stinkin nuts

Example: It's 10 oclock! everybody break!.......any good carpenter knows that the day works at speeds......hang ups slow you down and get you out of rythum.....most of the time it takes an hour or so for things to fall back into sinc......the rythum is where you get your production/money and can't be clocked.......so....if you spend your rythum on your a$$ eating twinkies you aint making nobody $hit.

It's a simple formula Job+(10:00UB+3:00UB)=crap

Bob

Pile drivers work on high ways, buildings, dams, and bridges they include divers who do underwater work there are friction piles, sheet piles, wood piles , concrete piles, and steel piles. piles are put into the ground with special equipment mechanical, vibratory, hydraulic, compressed air. Its a little more complicated than that if you had to do it for a day you wouldnt have a clue. Breaks? you dont take a break? work starts with tools on at 7am 15 min break at 9. 30 min lunch at noon, roll up at 330, 8 hour day. Production is one crew runing track while another filling in studs and another slinging board hundreds of feet of wall hung in a day. Doors and hardware guys coming in behind installing closers, panic bars, comercial locksets it would take you all day to do one because you dont do it everyday you never went to school to learn how.Thats production! guys hanging more grid than youve walked under. I know theres card buyers out there but the guys that went to school did a four year apprenticeship dont sign there names with an x!
50000 a year is not allot of money and were talking about skilled trades here.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You'll have to excuse me. Cause I don't have a clue about union work. I'm only a 10 year union carpenter out of 1535 collinsville and 5 year union contractor who got stiffed buy the brotherhood for demanding production from fellas with a 35.00 an hour package.

Bob
 

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Glasshousebltr said:
You'll have to excuse me. Cause I don't have a clue about union work. I'm only a 10 year union carpenter out of 1535 collinsville and 5 year union contractor who got stiffed buy the brotherhood for demanding production from fellas with a 35.00 an hour package.

Bob
Now you demand production from twinkie eaters with a ten dollar an hour package that sighn there names with x'es right?
 

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I remember well when the AFL/CIO finally made it into the City of Ft. Laud. A job that used to take 1 or 2 hrs. often took that many days. It cost the city a lot of good people, the intelligent ones couldn't deal with the frustration and quit. I lasted about 6 mos. and entered the private sector, one of my better moves. My take home pay went from $380 every 2 weeks to a minimum of $600+ per week and my best week netted me over $1200.00, bennies were acceptable too.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
carpentermikeal said:
Now you demand production from twinkie eaters with a ten dollar an hour package that sighn there names with x'es right?

Hell No!........My fellas are rather fond of HoHos.:cheesygri
 
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