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Discussion Starter #1
It just dawned on me that everybody that posts here and every other contractor forum says the exact same thing. - don't use marketing that will attract customers who want a deal or who will want to negotiate, it seems that everybody wants customers who are willing to pay for quality work and recognize the need to do so. Everybody says the same thing, they want customers that have the money to pay for good work and to keep seeking those types of customers out in order to succeed.

Well damn, everybody is going after the same customers!

What about the people who don't want to pay for quality work, the ones who want a $10,000 job done for $5000? Who is serving these people? I haven't ran into anybody online that has ever admitted to be the guy who is serving those customers!

Wouldn't it be easier for me to just shift my tactics away from all those ideal customers that every contractor on earth is after and just specialize in the other ones? I'm betting there is a lot more of them, and the competition would certainly be reduced or maybe even non-existant. Wouldn't my closing ration go up dramatically and my volume increase 4 or 5 fold instantly?

This is awesome, I should have thought of this a long time ago! Why keep swiming against the current when I can just turn tail and float down it!
 

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Mike, I think that you would float down to obscurity.
Now if you could find a way to do a 10K job for 5K and still make a decent profit........look out Bill Gates! Mike's on his way!
 

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Is that sarcasm I smell Mike? ;) I seriously hope so otherwise my comments are gonna tick you off...lol.


"Wouldn't my closing ration go up dramatically and my volume increase 4 or 5 fold instantly?"

Yeah...so would another closing ratio if you only went for fat chicks. :D


"Why keep swiming against the current when I can just turn tail and float down it!"

Fish swim, crap floats. :Thumbs:

Tim

Seriously though, a few years ago I had a short but insightful sales job that dealth with a certain demographic group that has a reputation for....cheapness. MY GOSH - You have no idea how infurating it is getting to the end of the deal and then getting "I need discount or no deal". When you start into that market of bargain hunters, there's no end to the haggling.... It's either in you or it's not. If not, it will annoy you to the point that you'll want to quit.
 

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the guys who work for those customers cannot afford computers or internet. therefore you will not see them online.
 

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Florcraft said:
the guys who work for those customers cannot afford computers or internet. therefore you will not see them online.
Exactly. In my experience at least, the hacks and deal-makers are the norm. But someone with the wisdom to break the status-quo and not cater to every person that calls, jumping through hoops to make the deal no matter how bad you have to pimp yourself, is a rare person indeed.

Most in my particular field, when I ask if they get online(I'm always trying to recruit), tell me they "don't even know how to turn that thing on" The 4pm drinkers, the crack-head-with-a-van-and-tools, the guys that day in and day out do the same low paying low self-asteem work couldn't find this place, wouldn't understand what they see, and definatlely wouldn't bother coming back on a regular basis to talk about the business that they've let themselves get trapped into.

I think the ideal customers are still a largely untapped market. Few really know how to handle them, how to service their particular needs. Many try because "they got the money" but few I think manage to be more than mediocre at it.

Don
 

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It really has to do with self esteem.

if you think about it long enough, there really is no reason for a pro to discount his/her work, or negotiate prices, or do work for a lower pay if their self esteem is in top shape.

High self esteem = high pay - in all fields.
 

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I'd have to say any contractor that's been in business for more than a few yrs has done at least one job somewhere along the line that turned into a non-profit exercise. Important thing is to learn from your mistakes & try not to repeat them. Got sucked up into a deck job last spring when things were pretty slow, that should have been an easy 3-4 day gig, pay my help $300-$350 & make $1k. Ended up being there 7 days, worked 12 hrs the last day, and still made the same grand for my trouble. Bent over backwards to please the customer, thinking they were going to be able to throw alot of work my way (he owns a lumber yd). Thus far I've gotten one finish & texture gig from him. :rolleyes: Such is life.
 

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How can I expand into the ghetto market? What will I charge as the wheels are being taken off of my truck and my tools are being carted off by armed theives?
I have worked in some of the 'hoods' and found that if you are helping the right person, it's OK. In general work, somebody will rob you blind.
I have worked for Habitats and numerous local groups along that line trying to better my commuinity and have generally suffered losses beyond those expected.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well shoot, I thought I was onto something.

Tim you got it on the first try. I'm trying to remember what movie I saw this on, called it the aim low philosophy or something - I think their slogan was "we aim so low that we have no competition."

The fat chicks closing line is what reminded me, that and the joke about marry an ugly girl instead of a pretty girl incase she runs off on you, but an ugly girl can run off on you too, yep - but nobody cares! - thats the epitome of the aim low philosophy! You set your sights so low anything you do would be successful. He He!
 

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TO THE THEME OF SUPERMAN

Look! down in the dumpster!
It's! Captan Cardboard Condo! (looking for lunch)

able to work in urine and alcohol induced fomit.
capable of producing on your wellfare check.

It's Captain! .......ah!........ hey you SOB come back here with my wallet!:cheesygri

Bob
 

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Bob, you missed your calling.
 

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I have done work in several ghetto markets, the hood as Teetor so aptly put, only because it was commercial for a certain GC. It has helped that me and all my employees now have CCW licenses, nothing more impressive than 6 packing paperhangers. My thats an interesting toolbelt you have there, is that a 9??? No, its a Walther P99 40SW, please step away from my truck sir.
 

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I keep a little something nearby at all times, also have CWP. Nothing like a brace of 68 cal pistols to keep the bad guys away.
 

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TimWieneke said:
Seriously though, a few years ago I had a short but insightful sales job that dealth with a certain demographic group that has a reputation for....cheapness. When you start into that market there's no end to the haggling.... It's either in you or it's not. If not, it will annoy you to the point that you'll want to quit.
Hmmmmmm? Certain demographic group? Hmmmmmmm? Cheapness? Hmm? Smart , industrious folks they must be. If they keep it up the next thing you know they'll be in control of the world's banks, huh? I'm glad I married in.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Tim you might be referring to Jews, but I thought you were referring to orientals. I have found that Jews may have a tendency to want a deal, but they have a bigger tendency to not mind paying a lot if they believe they are getting high quality as a result, however in the end they are often extremely critical and always seem to believe they have been ripped off no matter what.

Orientals on the other hand seem to have no rhyme or reason to their negotiations and can be extremely frustrating, they seem to have a culture based on negotiation and don't negotiate logically or towards a pre-determined value as us westerners do. For example westerners seem to have a pre-determined value for a project such as $5000.00 and if they are told $5100 they can make a judgement that $5100 is a good deal and agree. Orientals don't seem to operate this way. If you told them $5100 they don't have this predetermined $5000 figure and want you to do it for less. If you told them $7000 they want it for less. Their determination of a value to do the deal at usually seems to be determined by exhausting all sources and picking the lowest one, with very little emphasis placed on value of the individual bids.

I have also experienced an even worse phenomena with orientals which is the "lied to figure". They have a tendency to brag and exagerate amonst themselves about the deals they get so they often will have a totally unattainable expectation going into a negotiate because it is based on a exageration by a relative or friend.
 

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The truth be known, America is one of the few places on the planet where people accept a given price for just about anything. Haggling is the way business is done elsewhere.
 

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Bingo ProWall.... I'm not saying it's bad, I just have better things to do with my time then spend thousands of dollars worth of time to argue ten bucks.... Oh and by the way, it was one Indian business owner (my boss) telling me not to bother even to start haggling with other Indian business owners. I remember him telling me, "If dey ack mad, don worry aboud id. Dey are jus so chip. If dey wan discoun, dey go somewhere else." :D

Teetor haggling's fine elsewhere, so's socialism, so's 60% income tax across the board, so's Charlie Sheen. ;)

Tim
 
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