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Discussion Starter #1
i`ve written about the caboose i`m working on
we`re at the stage where we`re putting the interior t&g on ( 1x4 , cypress)
the exterior is 1x6 cypress t&g.

after 5 months this exterior t&g , is still shrinking at the seams , splitting the caulking and paint

the guy over-seeing me and the project ,"Richard " for the museum , insisted on , me screwing all the 1x6 cypress , with 2 inch galvanized screws , right on the surface .
even though i did use galvanized - ring-shank upon installation .. i shot them on each new tongue side , so as not to ruin the surface ( pissed me off at the time ).
he took it upon himself to fill all these screw holes , and caulk every joint with polyseamseal caulk.
richard is pretty handy , and is actually donating about 3-4 hours a day , so i cant` argue too much

since then this t&g , has been primed and painted twice , all with top of the line ben moor paint .
yesterday , we noticed about 20-30 v-joints coming apart enough where the caulking is opening up .
meaning we have to re-caulk , and re-paint.


what the hell!
trying to figure what to do so this doesn`t keep happening.
for the inside , i`m putting 6 mil plastic for a moisture barrier , hoping this helps keep the inside wood from moving too much

ADVICE ??
 

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Was it KD & if so what was the moisture content upon delivery and then on install?
 

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MC was too high. Painting slowed the shrinkage, who knows how long it will take.

Since the 1X6 are fastened in two places, cracking could occur.

There a few adhesive caulks that will stay bonded even with significant movement. The spacing had to be designed to get a proper caulk joint.

When that was originally built, gap filling was done with ioakum or lead putty, which hardened and cracked over time. Neither was used in an application like that. Just install the boards with the vee down.
 

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3M 5200 is used for watertite caulking in marine applications. There are other ones that will handle more joint movement if needed.
 

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He is in Miami, super high humidity in the summer
its always going to move
Yep

We won't paint TNG outside. Its gotta be stained. We pre stain it, touch up. Go back for free at a year and touch up. Usually ok after that.

Like concrete is going to crack its gonna move

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Artist and not a curator
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It's cypress so it's almost a guarantee it wasn't kd. Interesting enough cypress is considered dry at a higher MC then other woods. I think 14-16% is considered dry. The new growth cypress move A LOT no matter where it is. If you face nail and through the tongue, it is almost inevitably going to split if you didn't seal the endgrain with glue or paint. Also, one of the things that helps movement is to use the siding as a rainscreen rather than applied directly to the subsurface. You want to allow the back side to breath or it will dry in a non-uniform manner causing all types of issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks


yes , miami is real humid
just last month , in coral gables ( very well to do area ) had to climb under a house , lay down 6 mil plastic , and install crawl space fans so as to make a vetilation , the house , even though it had foam blown onto the bottom of the wood flooring , still was rotting internally .
wood is always moving i agree ,
' its a dead tree . maybe we shouldn`t have caulked it
 

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Discussion Starter #12
MC was too high. Painting slowed the shrinkage, who knows how long it will take.

Since the 1X6 are fastened in two places, cracking could occur.

There a few adhesive caulks that will stay bonded even with significant movement. The spacing had to be designed to get a proper caulk joint.

When that was originally built, gap filling was done with ioakum or lead putty, which hardened and cracked over time. Neither was used in an application like that. Just install the boards with the vee down.
at this pint its too late ( thanks for the info though . i was wondering what they did in the 200`s)
but as for the inside ,you think its best NOT to caulk all the joints .?
 

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Radical Basement Dweller
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You can look at any T&G porch ceiling from days gone by (and current) and you won't see caulk used. If it was, it probably looks like hell.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
yea , i just checked on a painting forum ,
most said not to caulk it , for the same reason mentioned ,
it WILL shrink , the caulking WILL crack , and then it WILL look like crap.
gonna have to talk with this old guy " Richard" he demanded it , he did it all , and I A GUY , WHO HAS ONLY DONE THIS OVER 40 YEARS!!.. didn`t research it !!
well , i`m gonna tell him not to do the interior , because its usually going to be open , and will be affected by the outside temperature
This man Richard means well .
he`s a hobbyist, he`s a decent carpenter , but only as a person doing it for fun
he insisted on hand brushing this whole caboose
he and i butt heads about once a month
but he is so passionate about this one caboose . his father actually drove it here in the 70`s , and he has an attachment to it .
he wants it perfect
and i`m always worried about the time frame . its way over budget , but he`s blind to that
 

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That's why at least paint the tongue, if not that and the groove so when it does move you don't see a raw line.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
MAN!!
MORE PROBLEMS . TONGUE AND GROOVE BUCKLING .

i`m still dealing with this caboose .
had to drop back and do another job for the last 4 weeks
just coming back to this project.
the floor t&g , has buckled up!
2 runs have popped up ( like a ramp)

i`m freakin 62 , been doing this kind of work since i was 16 with dad.
i thought i did everything right
i have a 3/4 inch plywood sub-floor.
i put , on that 6 mil plastic.
i shot the wood down , with galvanized , 16 guage 2 inch nails, ( yes at angles , and in the v`s)
it looks good , very straight, staggered my joints .

DIDN`T CAULK THE JOINTS THIS TIME!
very frustrated .
will need to remove the buckled pieces , and replace
but because they buckled , doesn`t necessarily mean they are the problem
could have been the other pieces that moved , and pushed those 2 up
considering screwing it all down.
 

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Radical Basement Dweller
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I'm guessing it buckled along the width?

Did you leave gaps at each side where it meets the wall?
 

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My two cents, on old houses the tongue and groove floors are nailed down over diagonally subfloor boards that are attached to the floor joists. Air circulates thru the cracks and allows drying of the floor boards from both sides. I believe the moisture is being retained by the plastic vapor barrier on bottom of the floor boards and the plywood. Not allowing sufficient expansion gaps on the sides of the caboose will also be part of the problem. Why we have base boards to cover the gaps when installing wood floors. As for the ceiling t&g opening up is maybe the opposite, roof heating up the inside of the wood causing shrinkage in a wood that wasn’t dry enough originally. Maybe air circulation behind would help, probably not. ( 17 years custom woodworker including 100s of doors where we always had to allow for wood expansion and contraction, 15 years working on remodeling homes) Have not worked with cypress. Good luck.


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