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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am interested on what everyone thinks of the new stimulus package for home imporvements our government has put together? Is it a good selling tool for jobs? Do you think it will help generate business?
 

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Personally,
I'd like to see the gov't keep the he!! out of the giveaway business, & quit spending money it don't have. It only devalues the good money created by people who actually produce. Artificial stimulation only has short term results that eventually have to be paid for by someone else.
Joe
 

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Only these types of contracts/contractors benefit the most from stimulus $$$ :

1. Government/BIG contractors (i.e., Military/Defense, Govt. building construction, general services, equipment maintenance, etc.)

2. Contract types: Civil, bridge, road infrastructure, equipment maintain/repairs, school, military, construction/services on housing for low-income housing population, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks

Thanks for the insite guys. What do you think H/O's think about it... I think it is a false promise. They are ask to buy something at a higher cost for a refund but the refund in most cases does not offset the higher cost in full. Take windows for example standard Low-e/ Argon typically gives you a U factor of 29 but the stimulus calls for a 30... the money spent compared to the value of 1 point increase on the U does not compute.
 

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If a client wants me to provide a service and benefit from the stimulus, I back off. I have no interest in furthering the efforts of this admin.....

Too much trouble with all the paperwork. :mad:
 

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Stimulus Package

Is it a good selling tool for jobs? Do you think it will help generate business?
Holy cow I'm stunned that nobody so far has said anything positive about the stimulus package. I don't like it (throwing away money); I think the .30/.30 is a waste (the performance requirements should vary by region), but it IS a good selling tool for window jobs and will generate business. If you're too busy to take advantage of the opportunities then so be it, but it's a tool that you can use to stimulate business. There has been numerous times this year that I've talked to people who decided to replace their windows now instead of maybe later because of the tax credit. There has also been numerous times people decided to get at least $5,000 worth of windows to take full advantage of the tax credit rather than getting only several windows (30% of $5,000 is the maximum credit of $1,500). Again, I am not nuts about the tax credit program, but I can see how it will stimulate business for those who properly communicate the advantages of the program.

One of my main frustrations of the program is the .30/.30 requirement. Homeowners in the northern US climate can benefit from the .30 U-value requirement, but are potentially paying extra for a .30 (or lower) solar heat gain coefficient that they don't need. Plus it may make the glass darker depending on the glass package selected. People in a southern climate are getting a low SHGC which is nice for them, but they're also potentially paying extra for a low U-value which they may not want or need. It would be better I think if the requirements varied by climate region.
 

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I don't think so

They are ask to buy something at a higher cost for a refund but the refund in most cases does not offset the higher cost in full. Take windows for example standard Low-e/ Argon typically gives you a U factor of 29 but the stimulus calls for a 30... the money spent compared to the value of 1 point increase on the U does not compute.
I don't quite understand your math, but I'd like to. First, using your example, if standard Low e/argon has a U-value of .29 and the tax credit requirements are .30 or less, it already meets the requirements. With U-values, the lower the value, the better it is. Are you suggesting that they spend extra to get it even lower? Second, standard Low E/argon is a U-value of about .32-.35 for wood/clad windows, not .29. Vinyl windows with standard Low E/argon are generally .26-.31. You numbers may reflect one particular brand or material but are not applicable to many window brands and materials. Third, you didn't mention anything about the .30 or lower SHGC (solar heat gain coefficient) requirement. Many low E/argon units have the SHGC around .30 to .33. In many cases homeowners would have to pay extra to get the SHGC lower, even though the U-vales might already be .30 or lower. Fourth, I disagree with the statement that homeowners must "buy something at a higher cost for a refund but the refund in most cases does not offset the higher cost in full." Although this could vary by brand, it's my observation that the upgrade to get a better glass package costs about 10-15% more, but the tax credit is 30%. Let's do the math. If a window costs the homeowner $300, and an upgraded glass package costs 15% more (many windows don't need to upgrade at all so this is a worst case scenario), the upcharge is $45. That would make the window cost $345. The tax credit is 30% of that $345, which is $103.50. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just present the facts to show how the tax credit works to the homeowner's advantage. Maybe you're thinking of an even further extreme example, like upgrading from double glazed Low E/argon to triple glazed Low E/krypton gas. That's not really necessary with many brands to go that far to meet the tax credit requirements. Fifth, there are wood, wood clad, fiberglass, and vinyl windows (and other materials) that windows can me made of. I sell mostly wood/clad and fiberglass windows, and less vinyl. I'm guessing your comments were from a vinyl window only perspective.

One final thought. Even if the homeowner didn't get much money back; let's say they would just break even with the upgrade (if needed), they would still have the benefit of a more energy efficient glass. It's not just about dollars and cents - it's about a lifestyle improvement that would make it more comfortable to be in a room with their new low U-value-low SHGC windows.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok you got me. I mis-typed! I meant 31 to 30 not 29! You make great points Tru_Blue. But in some cases when talking about windows and the stimulus package people in my opinion may not be getting their monies worth. Your opinion differs but hey thats the world. And yes I agree with you that it's a mindset to do better with your energy conservation. But think about the diference from a std low-e package... is 1 point going to save leaps and bounds on energy? And if you recall the std 31 qualified up until June 1st. Now when dealing with H/O's the stimulus package is a great sales tool, no one should pass that up. Either for roofing, windows or insulation. But remember to tell the H/O that they only get refunds on material... not labor.

But Tru_Blue... I agree in that to get a better product and break even does still sound like a deal to me.
 

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Yes, tax credit.

Won't matter much when we are taxed to the hilt at the end of the year or next year. It will be a wash with a ton of materials wasted, let alone people's money.
 

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Tax credit

It's a tax credit, meaning that when one files their taxes and is owed money by the feds then the "tax credit" earned for the window replacement project is null and void. Tax credit only, not tax refund.
I'm not sure if you understand how the tax credit works. It is a tax refund, if you're owed money. Let's do the math again in a different way. Let's say you file your taxes without applying the tax credit, and you're due a $100 refund. Fine, you get $100. Now let's say instead you file your tax return but claim the $1,500 tax credit. Instead of getting a $100 check back from the government, you'll get a check for $1,600. If I understand you correctly, it seems as if your saying that in the above scenario one would get their normal $100 tax refund, but not the $1,500 credit because that would be a refund and not a credit. It doesn't work that way. It's a tax credit; a tax refund; money back - whatever you want to call it. And it gives many homeowners motivation to replace their windows sooner than later. And for contractors, it gives them a tool to use to promote energy-efficient products, improve homes, and make a profit. It's a GOOD DEAL for the homeowner; it's a GOOD DEAL for the contractor. It's somewhat unfortunate that all of the other taxpaying citizens are paying for it, but that doesn't negate the fact that it is a GOOD DEAL.
 

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haha, by next April, I doubt they will have any money left to give out.

Some are getting a "good deal" with the insurance claims. Use insurance money to pay for new roof, siding, or windows, and get the credit that way.

IMO, even if it did work out perfectly, the $1500 is peanuts. That is one house payment or less.....After spending $10K........just doesn't make it reasonable to do if you don't need the replacement already.
 

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Tru_Blue said:

It's a tax credit; a tax refund; money back - whatever you want to call it.

I think you are off the mark here. There is a difference between a tax credit and a tax refund. When your taxes are done and ready to file, a tax credit would be applied towards money you owe thereby reducing the tax owed but only up to the amount owed. The only way (typically) you get a refund is if you have paid too much in taxes and are due some back. A refund.

Now not being intimately familiar with these packages, I cannot believe it is set up to give people money as a tax refund. I can see a tax credit, sure. I believe if you are telling people that they will be getting money back at tax time, you might have some nasty suprises from customers not happy with your choice of words.

Please, someone correct me if I am wrong here. I can take it. Show me the part in the package were it says you will get MONEY back.
 

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Right on spot, Mike!

Uncle Sam wants your tax, collects your tax, and... ONLY refunds your tax up to IRS owed amount (previously collected from you).... & no more additional money surprise$ you can squeeze from his lemon further... :whistling Like I said, only BIG/RICH customers & BIG contractors with million dollars tax already kept by IRS can benefit the MOST from this crazy stimulus thing!! :thumbsup:

So, in conclusion, Uncle SAM helps ONLY Da RICH, Da FAMOUS, & DA BASTARDS!!! LOL :thumbup:
 

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Tru_Blue said:

It's a tax credit; a tax refund; money back - whatever you want to call it.

I think you are off the mark here. There is a difference between a tax credit and a tax refund. When your taxes are done and ready to file, a tax credit would be applied towards money you owe thereby reducing the tax owed but only up to the amount owed. The only way (typically) you get a refund is if you have paid too much in taxes and are due some back. A refund.

Now not being intimately familiar with these packages, I cannot believe it is set up to give people money as a tax refund. I can see a tax credit, sure. I believe if you are telling people that they will be getting money back at tax time, you might have some nasty suprises from customers not happy with your choice of words.

Please, someone correct me if I am wrong here. I can take it. Show me the part in the package were it says you will get MONEY back.
Sounds like you understand what I am saying. My interpretation comes from a client who is a retired CPA and he called a contact at IRS for an opinion. It's a tax credit and only applies if you owe the feds. There is no money exchanging hands so therefore if the feds owe you, a tax refund, the stimulus program does not apply. It sounds like semantics but when you live in the land of lawyers, like Mike, Rory, myself and a few others on this forum, you pay attention to the wording.
 

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If the program is still setup like years prior and the wording has not change. I have not read the fine print, but I assume it is the same.

You will in fact get a check or tax credit if you are in the position to receive one. Money will exchange hands if you do not owe taxes.

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You mean to tell me that a person putting new windows that meet O's definition of energy savings will mean they get money back no matter what? That I can't (well maybe I can) believe. Tax credit I can see. My post is correct in the definition of credit vs refund.

SOMEONE SHOW ME THE PART WHERE IT SAYS YOU GET CASH BACK!!
 

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You mean to tell me that a person putting new windows that meet O's definition of energy savings will mean they get money back no matter what? That I can't (well maybe I can) believe. Tax credit I can see. My post is correct in the definition of credit vs refund.

SOMEONE SHOW ME THE PART WHERE IT SAYS YOU GET CASH BACK!!
It is listed as one of your deductions and you tally up if you don't owe the irs money you get a check. If I remember correctly there is a IRS form you fill out and submit my wifey and a few clients of mine did it about 2 years ago.

Just think of it as one of your deductions
 
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