Holy cow I'm stunned that nobody so far has said anything positive about the stimulus package. I don't like it (throwing away money); I think the .30/.30 is a waste (the performance requirements should vary by region), but it IS a good selling tool for window jobs and will generate business. If you're too busy to take advantage of the opportunities then so be it, but it's a tool that you can use to stimulate business. There has been numerous times this year that I've talked to people who decided to replace their windows now instead of maybe later because of the tax credit. There has also been numerous times people decided to get at least $5,000 worth of windows to take full advantage of the tax credit rather than getting only several windows (30% of $5,000 is the maximum credit of $1,500). Again, I am not nuts about the tax credit program, but I can see how it will stimulate business for those who properly communicate the advantages of the program.Is it a good selling tool for jobs? Do you think it will help generate business?
I don't quite understand your math, but I'd like to. First, using your example, if standard Low e/argon has a U-value of .29 and the tax credit requirements are .30 or less, it already meets the requirements. With U-values, the lower the value, the better it is. Are you suggesting that they spend extra to get it even lower? Second, standard Low E/argon is a U-value of about .32-.35 for wood/clad windows, not .29. Vinyl windows with standard Low E/argon are generally .26-.31. You numbers may reflect one particular brand or material but are not applicable to many window brands and materials. Third, you didn't mention anything about the .30 or lower SHGC (solar heat gain coefficient) requirement. Many low E/argon units have the SHGC around .30 to .33. In many cases homeowners would have to pay extra to get the SHGC lower, even though the U-vales might already be .30 or lower. Fourth, I disagree with the statement that homeowners must "buy something at a higher cost for a refund but the refund in most cases does not offset the higher cost in full." Although this could vary by brand, it's my observation that the upgrade to get a better glass package costs about 10-15% more, but the tax credit is 30%. Let's do the math. If a window costs the homeowner $300, and an upgraded glass package costs 15% more (many windows don't need to upgrade at all so this is a worst case scenario), the upcharge is $45. That would make the window cost $345. The tax credit is 30% of that $345, which is $103.50. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just present the facts to show how the tax credit works to the homeowner's advantage. Maybe you're thinking of an even further extreme example, like upgrading from double glazed Low E/argon to triple glazed Low E/krypton gas. That's not really necessary with many brands to go that far to meet the tax credit requirements. Fifth, there are wood, wood clad, fiberglass, and vinyl windows (and other materials) that windows can me made of. I sell mostly wood/clad and fiberglass windows, and less vinyl. I'm guessing your comments were from a vinyl window only perspective.They are ask to buy something at a higher cost for a refund but the refund in most cases does not offset the higher cost in full. Take windows for example standard Low-e/ Argon typically gives you a U factor of 29 but the stimulus calls for a 30... the money spent compared to the value of 1 point increase on the U does not compute.
I'm not sure if you understand how the tax credit works. It is a tax refund, if you're owed money. Let's do the math again in a different way. Let's say you file your taxes without applying the tax credit, and you're due a $100 refund. Fine, you get $100. Now let's say instead you file your tax return but claim the $1,500 tax credit. Instead of getting a $100 check back from the government, you'll get a check for $1,600. If I understand you correctly, it seems as if your saying that in the above scenario one would get their normal $100 tax refund, but not the $1,500 credit because that would be a refund and not a credit. It doesn't work that way. It's a tax credit; a tax refund; money back - whatever you want to call it. And it gives many homeowners motivation to replace their windows sooner than later. And for contractors, it gives them a tool to use to promote energy-efficient products, improve homes, and make a profit. It's a GOOD DEAL for the homeowner; it's a GOOD DEAL for the contractor. It's somewhat unfortunate that all of the other taxpaying citizens are paying for it, but that doesn't negate the fact that it is a GOOD DEAL.It's a tax credit, meaning that when one files their taxes and is owed money by the feds then the "tax credit" earned for the window replacement project is null and void. Tax credit only, not tax refund.
Sounds like you understand what I am saying. My interpretation comes from a client who is a retired CPA and he called a contact at IRS for an opinion. It's a tax credit and only applies if you owe the feds. There is no money exchanging hands so therefore if the feds owe you, a tax refund, the stimulus program does not apply. It sounds like semantics but when you live in the land of lawyers, like Mike, Rory, myself and a few others on this forum, you pay attention to the wording.Tru_Blue said:
It's a tax credit; a tax refund; money back - whatever you want to call it.
I think you are off the mark here. There is a difference between a tax credit and a tax refund. When your taxes are done and ready to file, a tax credit would be applied towards money you owe thereby reducing the tax owed but only up to the amount owed. The only way (typically) you get a refund is if you have paid too much in taxes and are due some back. A refund.
Now not being intimately familiar with these packages, I cannot believe it is set up to give people money as a tax refund. I can see a tax credit, sure. I believe if you are telling people that they will be getting money back at tax time, you might have some nasty suprises from customers not happy with your choice of words.
Please, someone correct me if I am wrong here. I can take it. Show me the part in the package were it says you will get MONEY back.
It is listed as one of your deductions and you tally up if you don't owe the irs money you get a check. If I remember correctly there is a IRS form you fill out and submit my wifey and a few clients of mine did it about 2 years ago.You mean to tell me that a person putting new windows that meet O's definition of energy savings will mean they get money back no matter what? That I can't (well maybe I can) believe. Tax credit I can see. My post is correct in the definition of credit vs refund.
SOMEONE SHOW ME THE PART WHERE IT SAYS YOU GET CASH BACK!!