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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
"siding and roofing! workers comp and liability needed (worcester)

Hi my name is nathan and i have small to large siding jobs all in worcester! This is volume work, i buy materials, no 140 per square! Looking for less then tht so dnt waste my time, i have the work most people want, i underbid everyone for it but make a honest living doin it, owners happy = steady work and i come for me! (Do u get it) call today to check out some projects i have 617-528-8228 nathan and leave a message I will call u back "

So he is happy about having all sorts of work because he under bid everyone, but can't do the work. So now someone is supposed to sub from you for crap money? Good luck with that
 

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"siding and roofing! workers comp and liability needed (worcester)

Hi my name is nathan and i have small to large siding jobs all in worcester! This is volume work, i buy materials, no 140 per square! Looking for less then tht so dnt waste my time, i have the work most people want, i underbid everyone for it but make a honest living doin it, owners happy = steady work and i come for me! (Do u get it) call today to check out some projects i have 617-528-8228 nathan and leave a message I will call u back "

So he is happy about having all sorts of work because he under bid everyone, but can't do the work. So now someone is supposed to sub from you for crap money? Good luck with that
He won't be around for long! :no:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I hope not, but either way when he folds 2 more will pop up. Its like whack a mole around here. I am getting outbid by people giving ridiculous numbers. A few have been charging materials with no markup and $12/hr in labor (obviously not licensed or insured) but most that the HO tells me how much it was have been materials and around $25/hr. If it goes like this much longer I will have to fold. I am not putting my reputation, stressed, etc on the line to make $40k/yr. I can make that crap working for someone else as a laborer with the OT.
 

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Right there with you BFD. Its hard out there. I just feel like why cant everyone get on board and Keep a fair and honost price. Not extreme either way (low or High, Depending on job obviously)
 

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If I provided a quote for a job and someone said they could get it done for $12/hr plus materials, I would tell them in no uncertain terms to hire the guy who is willing to do it for that much. I would also never take another call or meeting from them again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If I provided a quote for a job and someone said they could get it done for $12/hr plus materials, I would tell them in no uncertain terms to hire the guy who is willing to do it for that much. I would also never take another call or meeting from them again.
I did tell them by all means to hire them and that I charge double my normal rate to fix or finish jobs. I'll take another call, but I won't bother going to another meeting with any of them before I have a signed T&M contract
 

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If he's taking jobs from you, you've put yourself in the wrong market & have bigger problems than his ads
this is ignorant. there's a lot of the same around here. guys come to us with $12/sq. ft houses and want us to frame them for $4/sq. ft. and if we don't do it (we don't) they go find some all-spanish uninsured crew to butcher the house for them. they don't care what it looks like, they just want cheap. of course there's guys out there who will pay for quality work, but for every 1 of those guys there's 20 like the former.
 

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Bfd i feel your pain we have been trying to enter the worcester market for two years. But found there is no room to make money.
 

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this is ignorant. there's a lot of the same around here. guys come to us with $12/sq. ft houses and want us to frame them for $4/sq. ft. and if we don't do it (we don't) they go find some all-spanish uninsured crew to butcher the house for them. they don't care what it looks like, they just want cheap. of course there's guys out there who will pay for quality work, but for every 1 of those guys there's 20 like the former.
The trick is getting away from the cheap clientel. If you develop the reputation for caving to the cheapscapes, then that's the clients who will keep calling you.
 

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The trick is getting away from the cheap clientel. If you develop the reputation for caving to the cheapscapes, then that's the clients who will keep calling you.
no. our reputation is doing quality work and paying our guys. it's just the construction climate the past handful of years since the economy collapsed.
 

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He won't be around for long! :no:
That is incorrect. Lots of dudes like that have been in business here for a long time and they stick around through the hard times and they flourished during the good. They don't pay for the things you and I pay for.

I am NOT an expert on business or sales, but the only way you can avoid selling against people like that in my experience, which is limited, to sell through referrals and word of mouth. the people that you work for will sell your future work.
 

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no. our reputation is doing quality work and paying our guys. it's just the construction climate the past handful of years since the economy collapsed.
Sorry to hear it's that tough in your area. I guess I should feel fortunate to work where I do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I agree, there is only 1 for every 20 cheap customers. One of the customers I was recently outbid on was for a deck on a house worth just shy of a million dollars. I got along great with the home owner, super nice guy. At the end of the day I was thousands higher and when he told me the number and I did out the math, either they are the fastest crew in the world, or they're charging no markup and $26/hr. People are getting cheaper and cheaper with less disposable income. I refuse to work for crap pay (I can get $30-35/hr working for someone else), its not worth my aggravation and the risk of something happening and losing money. But its really tough trying to find people willing to pay a reasonable amount of money to a company that isn't 20+ years old. Almost all of my work is an hour or more away because I have have done one job in my area because of hacks. I have done a few repairs on roofs that I bid and lost to hacks. I do those hoping they help spread my name and maybe they'll hire me for their next job.
 

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for the record, we do fine. but wanted to point out your very flawed logic. and yes, you should.
In a good market, my logics not flawed. Even in a weak market, there's always gonna be people with money. The trick is to offer a service your clientel needs, that your competition doesn't offer.

I work in a college town. I could choose to work for all the landlords that call wanting me to work on the cheap. I'm a cabinet guy & a hardwood floor guy. I compete against 4 carpet stores & home depot. I could beat my head against the wall & try bidding against the low end cabinets the the depot & another furniture store sells. Or I could try competing in the prefinish floor market. Either of those options, would leave me loosing most of the jobs I bid, or if I did land em, it would be for no profit.

Instead, I've spent the better part of 20 years working my way up the food chain of clients who can afford my service. It's not totally by accident that we stay busier than any of our competition. It's because we've developed a reputation.

The people who advertise on CL like in the OP, don't even phase me, because theyre not my competition. This the reason for my original comments.
 

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then flooring is a different animal.

we priced the framing on a job for one of our GCs recently. he bid the job against 5 other GCs. 4 out of the 6 GCs were at the same price, 1 was $10k higher, and the 6th came in $128k LOWER ($500k job in an affluent area for homeowners with money) and guess who got the job? the idiot who either did his math wrong or is gonna rip off his subs and homeowner.
 

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In a good market, my logics not flawed. Even in a weak market, there's always gonna be people with money. The trick is to offer a service your clientel needs, that your competition doesn't offer.

I work in a college town. I could choose to work for all the landlords that call wanting me to work on the cheap. I'm a cabinet guy & a hardwood floor guy. I compete against 4 carpet stores & home depot. I could beat my head against the wall & try bidding against the low end cabinets the the depot & another furniture store sells. Or I could try competing in the prefinish floor market. Either of those options, would leave me loosing most of the jobs I bid, or if I did land em, it would be for no profit.

Instead, I've spent the better part of 20 years working my way up the food chain of clients who can afford my service. It's not totally by accident that we stay busier than any of our competition. It's because we've developed a reputation.

The people who advertise on CL like in the OP, don't even phase me, because theyre not my competition. This the reason for my original comments.
I couldn't agree more. The people I work for are pretty recession resistant and don't hire anyone except by referral. I've got a steady round robin of about 6 clients who want something done annually, they call me "their carpenter" and are willing to wait, and not scared at all of price knowing I'm not inexpensive, and trusting I wont gouge them. Then I usually end up doing things for their friends and if I do that well, gain another recurring client. At times I have to tell people I'm about 6-7 months out.

You can't get rich this way but you can make a nice living. They are hard to get in with and when you do... You're set.
 
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