Certainteed recommends three ways to install drip edge on the eaves, over the felt on the rakes is recommended.

1. Install drip edge then ice and water over the top. This is by far the most commonly used method.

2. Install ice and water after down past the ton of the rake board as possible then the drip edge on top of that. Certainteed recommends this were ice back up may happen in the gutters. Consider the unprotected bottom edge of the decking with this method and if you've seen rot you know it usually starts there and works it's way up.

3. Install ice and water down past the rake board covering it up then drip edge on top of that. This would make the best seal but if no gutters are added the ice and water could telegraph through the thin aluminum facia. An inspector had me do this method once.

Personally I like #2. One reason being in the dead of summer working solo the ice and water sticks to the drip edge if running over a long distance. If you can get the ice and water run as far down as possible to the outer edge of the facia board it will seal the top of the board(s).

Again Certainteed warrants it's products used in all three motheds so all work and you'll get a warranty which ever way you go.

 

YES,AT THE GUTTER EAVE ,iCE &WATER SHIELD GOES ON TOP,ONTHE RAKE EAVES,THE METAL GOES ON LAST

 

Drip edge goes on first on the eaves. Ask any inspector, that is what is required if drip edge is used.

With sider's edge, obviously the I&W goes on first, but it must come out far enough to hit the metal edging.

Running the I&W on the sub-fascia just forces the water under the metal fascia and in the soffits.

 

What would Certainteed know?

 

I don't know. Maybe they want to protect their shingles.

I&W still is a rather new product and hasn't been proven yet. Especially when you come back a few years later and the shingles are stuck to the I&W.

 

Back in 1998 we had a real bad Ice storm. A lot of homes had ice back up. Any home that had gutters and lot with out gutter if the dripedge was installed first and Ice & Water over it, it leaked. Because of that we started to install 18" of Ice & Water first, dripedge, and back over the dripedge with Ice & Water. We always install 6' on the eve's, 3' on the racks, and all valleys. This is also a strong selling point for us.

 

:thumbsup:

That way everybody is happy!

Good post Jake.

 

On some jobs every shingle sticks to the I/W on others only a few.

Certainteed says if ice is a possibility in the gutters than to put down the I/W first then the drip edge.

Jake's way seems good too. Although unless you add a third row your not going to hit 6ft up the eave. 5.5ft is all your going to get with two rows.

I've yet to have an inspector not like how the I/W is put down. Their happy to see so much of it they usually smile! I like to put 1.5ft along all tin courses and 3.5ft around all the vents, chimneys, and skylights.

Had one inspector though once say I was suposed to put the felt over the drip edge on the rakes. He didn't last very long.

 

i put the ice shield own on the eaves and the drip edge over it. i put the felt paper on the rakes and the drip edge of that. in the valley's i use ice shield.

 

Grace recommends drip go over the Grace Ice & Water Shield. They also show details where the drip is sandwiched between two layers of GIWS.
Jim

 

Grace invented the stuff, go with there specs. I&W first then drip edge. We have done it that way for over 20 years.

 

Yes, and I've been fixing them for the last 10.

We have been over this many times. Kind of tired of it really. Have you seen water and ice drip into a soffit before? I have and it's because of a dumb idea that you guys are showing. I have never seen ice go under the drip edge and under the I&W, and if it does it is an extreme situation. Putting the I&W on first, it does not take an extreme situation to leak.
Yes the package reads both ways, but it also says to make sure the I&W is able to adhere to the metal drip edge IF a metal drip edge is used.

:no::w00t::w00t::no:

 

What would Grace AND Certainteed know?

Last time I checked Certainteed made everything to put on a pitched roof but valley flashing, shingle tins, drip edge, and vents other than air vents.

With a good shingle job there shouldn't be water under the shingles.
The idea of I&W covering as much wood as possible makes the most sense. It's good to see other roofers think this way. Keep in mind you have to run the I&W right to the top outer edge of the facia board. My guess is just like the shingles sticking to the I&W the drip edge will also.

Up until recent years pretty much every builder in the Twin Cities had the siders put the siders edge on the eaves. Even with this method the ice and water is still covering most of the wood.

 

Right from Certainteeds website...........

1. Unroll the underlayment parallel with the eaves. The eaves edge of
the underlayment should go OVER the drip edge eaves flashing,
but go UNDER the drip edge flashing along the rake.


It does also show in gutter areas to wrap the winterguard under the gutter, but on the fascia board. have you ever tried replacing a fascia that has winterguard on it? When you do, you have to cut the I&W off of it to replace it, then your seal is completely gone.
In the IRC code it shows most of MN in the "high hail damage" area(whatever they call it). This says to me that alot of the exterior components of a house should be replaceable, including fascias and soffit. Sealing the I&W to the fascia doesn't make this possible.

Both ways work, obviously, but I like my stuff to look good for the next guy that has to fix something around my work. And that guy could very possibly be me.

 

From what I see here dougger, you do very good work. It seems though that the closer I get to the metro, the worse the work is. It has always been that way.

 

Since we are in a severe weather area,we turn the I&W down on the facia then terminate it with a 3/4"x3/4" cedar ground then apply the drip edge over that. somtimes my guys will even stip in the drip edge flange with a piece of I&W shield but I think this is unecessary. We also always apply a minimum of 6' on the eaves and an 18" strip on the rakes. To incinuate that only your way is right MJW makes you out to be a jackass. You would do well to learn from some better roofers than yourself.
RooferJim

 

We put I&W on first, then the flashings over the I&W. When I've seen I&W fail, it's usually because it was put over metal, and I&W doesn't always stick well to metal, so there's a gap where the water can enter. I've never seen water entry when it's I&W first, followed by the metal. But then, we live in the snow belt, with frequent thawing and refreezing.

 

Thanks Jim. It means alot

oldfrt, with your situation you present, I don't see how either way could prevent water from getting in the soffits. If the soffits are vented it should run out.
I really think we are talking about different products used in different parts of the country.

I did not say it was "my" way. I took it straight from certainteeds website. It is the only way that everything is still replaceable without taking up the roof.

I did say both ways work, just not for me. I don't do just shingles.

 

Hey MJW,
The water was backing up under the drip edge(because of the frozen gutters and ice dam),getting in up over the facia into the soffit,then running down the sheathing.
If the I&W was installed first,sealing the top edge of the facia,this may not have happened.
Weather the soffit is vented or not is not the issue because any water on the back of the facia or sitting on unvented portions of the soffit would lead to rot.
The Certainteed web site may show their preferences for installation ,but what you see out in the field could lead to alternative or additional approaches.

 

That's what I thought, you are dealing with the old wood fascias and soffits. Now it makes sense.

 

t

his is what I do,technically ,it`s not a drip edge ,but a 3x3 backflashing,I hand roll this into place and it doesn`t lift for anyone,when it`s cold we use a hot air gun there,the gutter secures to the 3x3,and you can see how it grips the metal

 

pgriz & oldfrt;

I agree......

funny thing, (well, it's not funny), .....I've had to fight manuf. reps. ,bldg. inspectors, GC's, homeowners and re-do eave details, because they were considered the more knowedgeable than I.

I'll have to save this discussion!