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The concrete just collapsed!

682 Views 17 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  Fishindude
4
So we are working on converting a screened in patio into a four season room.

The Plan was to build up the outside perimeter with one course of block on top of the existing pad and and attach ledger boards and joists to meet the floor height of the existing house. Basically deck over concrete.

The engineer required us to add footers around the perimeter, to support the block and additional framing.

Here’s when the fun began:
While digging out the perimeter we found an existing footer. It was in bad shape, top course of cinderblocks were disintegrated noting but dirt. Once we dig out and expose the full footer the concrete pad cups/collapse in the middle. Not the perimeter just the middle.

After cleaning the Sh*t out of our pants, we discovered the was no dirt under the pad. The voids are any where between 5”, 2’ and 3’ in some places

My guess is water over time washed the dirt out. But where did it go?? In one of the crawl spaces in the basement has a lentil in the back right hand corner that creates and opening under the pad (5’ down). You see the dirt but no signs of wash out.

As of now we are planning on removing the pad, pouring a new footer/stem wall and then pouring a rat pad to cover where the pad was.

Any thoughts if that’s a solid plan? The change order will not be cheap because it’s a tone of manual labor. Chipping the pad with nothing under will be a pain not to mention dangerous.
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Did you brace that corner with 6 x 6 posts? I’m not saying it’s overkill, but I’d sleep under that.
My reply wasn’t helpful. I don’t know anything about concrete. Any reason you couldn’t mud jack that? I’ve seen lots of driveways lifted with injection foam.
Did you brace that corner with 6 x 6 posts? I’m not saying it’s overkill, but I’d sleep under that.
We did use 2- 2x6 and 2- 2x12. Figuring we would need to rebuild the stem wall in the corner. So spread the load out for the roofline.
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My reply wasn’t helpful. I don’t know anything about concrete. Any reason you couldn’t mud jack that? I’ve seen lots of driveways lifted with injection foam.
We thought of mud jacking but I’m not confident in the compaction of the dirt underneath.

We drilled a bunch of hole and dropped in rebar to see where the dirt started. We the pushed the rebar further in about 6”-10”. the compaction is not great.
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The engineer required us
Any thoughts if that’s a solid plan?
Seems to me the engineer is the one who needs to come up with a solid plan, not you and some guys on a forum. No?
Generally, you pour a proper perimeter foundation pinned to the house foundation, make sure you have proper soil compaction and compacted fill in the middle, then pour slab.
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Hopefully one of the demo experts will weigh in, but my instinct would be to use a concrete saw to make controlled cuts and breaks from the outside corner in.
The amount of time and money being spent trying to salvage the 4 inch concrete that is present might be better spent if you tear out all the concrete and repour it as a complete system
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The amount of time and money being spent trying to salvage the 4 inch concrete that is present might be better spent if you tear out all the concrete and repour it as a complete system
I agree. Demo what is there and rebuild it properly.
Another vote for demo and replace.
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Hopefully one of the demo experts will weigh in, but my instinct would be to use a concrete saw to make controlled cuts and breaks from the outside corner in.
With the pad already collapsing the issue I have with using a concrete saw is “kick back”. I have seen plenty of saw kick back when the concrete pinch’s the blade sending the saw flying back up to the operator. Having a diamond blade stuck in your head makes for a bad. If I was on solid footing I would totally agree.
With the pad already collapsing the issue I have with using a concrete saw is “kick back”. I have seen plenty of saw kick back when the concrete pinch’s the blade sending the saw flying back up to the operator. Having a diamond blade stuck in your head makes for a bad. If I was on solid footing I would totally agree.
There's worse things than having a diamond blade stuck in your head.

Try and get some props under it, then demo with a jack hammer, sledge hammer, what ever you've got.

You'll be fine.
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There've been many times I'd have killed for a void like that under concrete I was busting up. I could almost enjoy that.
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There've been many times I'd have killed for a void like that under concrete I was busting up. I could almost enjoy that.
Yeah the thing kind of set itself up for demo already, didn't it? Seems like half the job is done
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Removing that pad is not difficult or dangerous. Can be readily made into squares that can be used.

Push some pipes under to make it easier to slide the pieces out.
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i like the cutting into squares idea . i did that once on a project of mine .saved a lot of demo ,clean-up and a dump run .later those squares were used up fast as pavers or such .
i do not see this kick back issue since i dought you would cut that deep . seems like a 1" score and then pop it with a post .
unfortantly i am sitting here and things do not always go so smoothly . it still should break with or with out the scores .
i do hate bringing up the 'new' cost of the extra work .
In a way you're lucky it didn't cave in under anyone and the roof didn't end up on top of them.
As others suggested, now you can make a few extra bucks for demo and disposal, and it will make your job much easier to start from scratch.
Good luck
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Saw cutting to demo that slab will take at least double what it would to simply jackhammer it.
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