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Mark
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I am a dock/deck contractor ... first time here in the HVAC forum so be gentle.

Our compressor just went out on our 13 year old Carrier unit. Ordered another ($1750 installed) and when it arrived the tech found that the heat exchanger was cracked. So now we are looking at a new unit.

Both companies I had come out quoted new 3-ton 410A units.

York is $4703 installed. Tempstar is $5000 installed.

I have heard of York but their warranty is not as good as Tempstar.

Need some experienced guys to chime in here. Which way do I go?
 

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Go with whomever provides you with a better labor warranty. Both brands are alright, and should last awhile provided you do some simple routine maintenance. Over the long haul, the $300 shouldn't make that big of a difference. As a consumer, I would ask for a labor warranty.
 

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Carrier has a great reputation, and the heat exchanger shouldn't have cracked within thirteen years. For that matter, the h.e. may be still under warranty. Having said that, if the h.e. cracked prematurely, it's possible there is something amiss with the furnace ducting.

If you want to spend more money on the "premium" names (Lennox, Carrier, Trane), go for it, but the difference in quality does not match the difference in price.
 

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we install a lot of payne, same thing as a carrier, but cheaper. havent had any problems with them. i'd stay away from york, getting parts is a hassle. havent used many tempstars.
 

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tempstar is a ICP product which carrier owns.tempstar,keeprite,heil, kenmore,same product,different tag.would agree w/flash though,not so much unit,unless your talking about variable and 2 stage units,more about a proper installation...good luck
 

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NICKTECH
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right on, these brands are only components, not systems. its the installer, per say, that designs the system using these components. if the design is crap then the system is crap regardless of the brand of equipment
 

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we install a lot of payne, same thing as a carrier, but cheaper. haven't had any problems with them. I'd stay away from york, getting parts is a hassle. haven't used many tempstars.

If you install payne your installing the garbage carrier line. Tempstar (ICP) is basically in between payne and carrier now. More of the same cabinets minus the full louvers like carriers though.

I sell tempstar and I am not being biased at all because most companies out there have their issues but I prefer the ICP line over anything out there at this time. It all depends on what line they are quoting you though as well. Builder grade vs premium line? Etc.

If you can post models or series or even want to PM me I can give you a better idea. I do agree with the york parts thing. They sell alot of proprietary garbage that I cant stand. I prefer units that can be fixed with simpler parts.

Above brand though is proper installation and good work. Something that is lacking in 99 percent of companies out there I think
 

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If you install payne your installing the garbage carrier line. Tempstar (ICP) is basically in between payne and carrier now. More of the same cabinets minus the full louvers like carriers though.

I sell tempstar and I am not being biased at all because most companies out there have their issues but I prefer the ICP line over anything out there at this time. It all depends on what line they are quoting you though as well. Builder grade vs premium line? Etc.

If you can post models or series or even want to PM me I can give you a better idea. I do agree with the york parts thing. They sell alot of proprietary garbage that I cant stand. I prefer units that can be fixed with simpler parts.

Above brand though is proper installation and good work. Something that is lacking in 99 percent of companies out there I think
I've lined a carrier and a payne up next to each other and they are identical. same parts, same warranty no real difference, at least not to label it the "garbage carrier brand". your paying for the name. bryant is the same too. haven't had much experience with Tempstar, they don't sell them around here. just looking at tempstar, they only offer a 10 year warranty on their high stuff, where as carrier, payne, bryant, trane, and american standard offer 10 year on everything (as long as you register). that would be a big thing when i'm choosing a brand.

we do not do a whole lot of residential, and don't sell specifically one manufacturer, when people ask me, i tell them, if your looking for inexpensive, Payne is a good furnace\ac with a good warranty. if you want higher end get a trane/american standard.
 

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I've lined a carrier and a payne up next to each other and they are identical. same parts, same warranty no real difference, at least not to label it the "garbage carrier brand". your paying for the name. bryant is the same too. haven't had much experience with Tempstar, they don't sell them around here. just looking at tempstar, they only offer a 10 year warranty on their high stuff, where as carrier, payne, bryant, trane, and american standard offer 10 year on everything (as long as you register). that would be a big thing when i'm choosing a brand.

we do not do a whole lot of residential, and don't sell specifically one manufacturer, when people ask me, i tell them, if your looking for inexpensive, Payne is a good furnace\ac with a good warranty. if you want higher end get a trane/american standard.

Well that trane statement pretty much determines to me that you don't know what your saying:whistling. Payne units are equal to carriers builders grade unit. No full louver coils, no bells and whistles. Still not the same. Insides are identical at times, controls are not.

Tempstar (ICP) has most of the carrier characteristics as well except for the full louvered coils but the cabinets are similar to carriers higher end brand.

To sit there and say all the sub brands are the same is so ridiculous because if that were the truth why would ANYONE sell anything but the cheaper brands? There are different lines to every mfg out there and all the ones you can buy off the shelf are the cheaper units, hands down, plain and simple. They don't look as nice, half the time they don't have the controls or bells and whistles, and they don't come with the same support that you get by being a dealer for a better brand.

According to your philosophy you might as well sell Goodman for the slamming warranty and cheap unit. Any homeowner can get their hands on them anyway.

Payne, Luxaire, Weather King, ducane, all cheaper lines of the big boys. Sometimes they look closer than others but they are never completely the same. If you want an AC with a contactor, coil and compressor you got it. Want low and high pressure switches? Want a insulated compressor? want a time delay? forget it.

anyway....
 

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Well that trane statement pretty much determines to me that you don't know what your saying:whistling. Payne units are equal to carriers builders grade unit. No full louver coils, no bells and whistles. Still not the same. Insides are identical at times, controls are not.

Tempstar (ICP) has most of the carrier characteristics as well except for the full louvered coils but the cabinets are similar to carriers higher end brand.

To sit there and say all the sub brands are the same is so ridiculous because if that were the truth why would ANYONE sell anything but the cheaper brands? There are different lines to every mfg out there and all the ones you can buy off the shelf are the cheaper units, hands down, plain and simple. They don't look as nice, half the time they don't have the controls or bells and whistles, and they don't come with the same support that you get by being a dealer for a better brand.

According to your philosophy you might as well sell Goodman for the slamming warranty and cheap unit. Any homeowner can get their hands on them anyway.

Payne, Luxaire, Weather King, ducane, all cheaper lines of the big boys. Sometimes they look closer than others but they are never completely the same. If you want an AC with a contactor, coil and compressor you got it. Want low and high pressure switches? Want a insulated compressor? want a time delay? forget it.

anyway....
i'm not saying payne units are equal to carriers top end units, but they are equal to carriers base lines. they have the same parts, and are most likely made in the same factory. the tech support guy at the wholesale house is the same guy for Payne and carrier. maybe ill take a picture of a carrier furnace and a payne furnace and ill let you tell me which is which since the lesser brands don't look as nice and don't have all the bells and whistles :)
 

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i'm not saying payne units are equal to carriers top end units, but they are equal to carriers base lines. they have the same parts, and are most likely made in the same factory. the tech support guy at the wholesale house is the same guy for Payne and carrier. maybe ill take a picture of a carrier furnace and a payne furnace and ill let you tell me which is which since the lesser brands don't look as nice and don't have all the bells and whistles :)

I've been in the business long enough dude. I know what they look like. And I also worked for an industrial manufacturer that was owned by carrier at the time, so I do have an idea of what I am talking about.

I think one of the big differences you will find is paint vs. powder coated finishes. I THINK one of them holds up better over the years. I think....
 

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To Jeremy-lvhm...just curious how many years you've been in this business? Long enough to stiff the Tempstar customer's in 1996 to 1998 b/c Tempstar would only pay $25 for a preventative maintenance call in their 1 1/2 and 2 ton condensor units (3 million shipped)? Seems the genius's at Tempstar put the liquid line next to the suction line so the vibration would fracture the liquid line...then offered their contractor's $25 to go 50 miles or sometimes more...get out their ladders for a 2nd story or rooftop install...and install internally a pc of rubberized tubing with 2 wire ties to prevent the rupture. Anyone can guess how many contractor's RUSHED to do this. Most replies.."I'll just wait until they rupture and pick them up under warranty". I have NEVER bought a piece of Tempstar since 1997 and never will...b/c any company that short sighted to business conditions just simply don't value their customers...IMHO.
 

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To Jeremy-lvhm...just curious how many years you've been in this business? Long enough to stiff the Tempstar customer's in 1996 to 1998 b/c Tempstar would only pay $25 for a preventative maintenance call in their 1 1/2 and 2 ton condensor units (3 million shipped)? Seems the genius's at Tempstar put the liquid line next to the suction line so the vibration would fracture the liquid line...then offered their contractor's $25 to go 50 miles or sometimes more...get out their ladders for a 2nd story or rooftop install...and install internally a pc of rubberized tubing with 2 wire ties to prevent the rupture. Anyone can guess how many contractor's RUSHED to do this. Most replies.."I'll just wait until they rupture and pick them up under warranty". I have NEVER bought a piece of Tempstar since 1997 and never will...b/c any company that short sighted to business conditions just simply don't value their customers...IMHO.


Well I guess since they aren't the same company anymore I really don't give a :censored:. Do you remember that?!! Different company dumba:censored:. Back in 96 when the hourly rate was around $45-65 an hour where I was working I would say that isn't such a bad rate anyway. Unless all of your units are on rooftops as you so drastically described ( i somehow doubt they were) Actually I would thing it safe to say 90% of the units probably were installed in apartment and row home complexes in new construction so I'm sure they could have been done in record time.

Actually I don't take this industry all that serious. While it has been good to me and I enjoy my job some days it just isn't all that serious. I much rather enjoy working on things that really make me think like industrial refrigeration rather than boring residential commercial AC. Obviously you are one of those know it all blowhard residential kings:thumbup:

Relax dude. It's not all that serious. :boat:
 

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Wow...I was commenting on the Tempstar brand (kinda like the Goodman brand I've read getting slammed) when someone got kinda personal. At $40 to $65 an hour for labor...I *think* a $25 flat rate warranty call anywhere is a guaranteed loss (which is what I was trying to point out, and oh yes, I do think that rate bites)
 

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Wow...I was commenting on the Tempstar brand (kinda like the Goodman brand I've read getting slammed) when someone got kinda personal. At $40 to $65 an hour for labor...I *think* a $25 flat rate warranty call anywhere is a guaranteed loss (which is what I was trying to point out, and oh yes, I do think that rate bites)

Your commenting about a brands ten year past when it was a completely different company. LOL.

Ten years ago I don't think any technicians were making $25 an hour except for maybe the top guys so EVEN if it takes an hour at a clip (which it shouldn't) I think it would have been fine especially for a PM tech or a new guy to handle.

Anyway when you have a valid point let me know. :clap:
 

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Well we all kinda know that you're the top...so you were obv making over $25 an hour THEN...I was the #1 tech for a company in 1999 and made only $15/hour l think $25 for an hour (best example) with the gas and wear and tear (overhead) is a joke. But if I see the Goodman brand slammed anymore or trashed....I will start unloading on the technical issues of some other brands. They all have problems. I have personally installed Goodman for over 15 years and have very few callbacks. That's me. Someone else might have a lot. I don't badmouth or trash a product b/c of it's distribution (if anything I would want 10 outlets in a city for parts..ie...I have had one brand who had 1 outlet for parts and 4/5 times the part had to be shipped from St. Louis in one month. I get the feeling you get a LOT of competition from Goodman and lose a LOT of bids...IMHO.
 

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Warranty work isn't meant to make you a huge profit. It is meant to cover your costs.

By all means lets hear your "technical" issues and then you can tell me how Goodman manages to beat all of those issues with their wonderful cheap product.

Oh yeah and as far as losing bids to your competition I have priced Goodman equipment compared to my ICP line and the prices are not that much different. SO the only way I would lose to a lower bid is if the installer was charging alot less.

Lets say if the installer does things like: works for cash only, doesn't pull permits, uses garden hose for condensate lines, doesn't use secondary drain pans, reuses linesets, reuses pads, etc, etc, etc. All of the above is something more common to some contractors that buy certain "brands'

You can love your Goodman stuff all you want. I could care less. But if it really upsets you that SO MANY people "bash" them perhaps you should ask yourself why that is. I suppose its just an anomoly...
 
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