I use setting type joint compound in stead of all purpose joint compound when time is a factor.

Do you find the setting type j/c still maintains its integrity over time? I'm concerned with callbacks and rework (and unhappy customers) due to a deviation from best practices in order to expedite, and save time and money. Is there a trade-off occurring here?

Does setting type j/c cost more or less than all-purpose?

Thanks.

Mike Finley said:

I use setting type joint compound in stead of all purpose joint compound when time is a factor.

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I'm not a drywaller by trade...

I am under the understanding that setting compound is superior to all purpose compound (or sometimes referred to as drying type joint compound) in regard to cracking. Because all purpose compound is vinyl based it hardens because of moisture evaporation, and therefore shrinks more, where setting compound hardens due to an internal chemical process and shrinks much less. I have always been under the understanding that setting compound gives a better bond, has less shrinking and cracking and drys to a harder finish.

The disadvantages are it costs about 3x more than the all purpose stuff. You have to mix it from powder and you have to use what you mix. All purpose comes in a tub, it is pre-mixed, you can use what you need and re-cap it.

But being professional contractors you have to use your tools and materials like a pro golfer, pulling the right club out of the bag for the conditions you are in.

There are taping and topping compounds also to consider to expidite and deliver superior results while setting yourself apart from joe home owner.

I see...

Mike Finley said:

I'm not a drywaller by trade...

I am under the understanding that setting compound is superior to all purpose compound (or sometimes referred to as drying type joint compound) in regard to cracking. Because all purpose compound is vinyl based it hardens because of moisture evaporation, and therefore shrinks more, where setting compound hardens due to an internal chemical process and shrinks much less. I have always been under the understanding that setting compound gives a better bond, has less shrinking and cracking and drys to a harder finish.

The disadvantages are it costs about 3x more than the all purpose stuff. You have to mix it from powder and you have to use what you mix. All purpose comes in a tub, it is pre-mixed, you can use what you need and re-cap it.

But being professional contractors you have to use your tools and materials like a pro golfer, pulling the right club out of the bag for the conditions you are in.

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Thank you for the heads-up. Because of cost, I can see why you limit its use to time-sensitive jobs. So, it's superior in every way, but will eat up your margin like a Hemi guzzles gas.

I suspect a professional drywaller would be able to get the cost difference down to 1.5x ~ 2x with pallet buying, buying in bigger size bags or going through a drywall supply house.

I wouldn't let the price of the stuff stop you from exploring it, because drywalling seems to be one of the most heavily weighted trades where the materials are such as small percentage when compared to labor.

I use the setting compound for the tape work and the second layer and then drying compound for the final layer.

For example if I am putting in a direct to stud fiberglass shower stall, I can do the tear out of the old, install a new valve, install the shower pan and surround, replace the drywall and put my first layer of mud and tape on, then go to a late lunch, return from lunch and put on my second layer, go pack up and pack the truck up and just before I leave put on the final layer of drying compound. - come back in the morning, sand and finish the job.

Quick set is the only way to go on small jobs IMO, saves trips & with the price of gas at $2 a gal that's money in your pocket.

Autofeed screwguns are great!!! For my $$ though the best innovation to come along in a while is the paper faced corner beads and the slop box. Cuts the time of setting bead in half and since I've been using the system for some 2-1/2 yrs now, not a single call back, knock on wood.

Slop Box??

walldoc said:

For my $$ though the best innovation to come along in a while is the paper faced corner beads and the slop box.

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What's "the slop box"?

Thanks.

I'm with Mike on this one. I rarely do large drywall projects personally, and whenever I personally do any mud work, it's always with quik set. I keep nothing but 20minute and 5 minute on hand and have learned to work quickly/effeicently to utilize it. I also keep pedestal fans in the truck for these projects.

Just did a small bathroom touch up for a guy selling his place. Skim coated the entire bathroom 8'x6', retextured and out in 5 hours. Just use COLD water when mixing, I tried using warm water with 5 minute mud for a fast patch job, it was hard in the pan before I was even half way done mixing. And this quik set is HARD AS HELL when it dries in your pan, so working fast is cruitial!!

It's a hopper set up that's used for premudding paperfaced corner bead. Check with your local drywall supply house. Pla-Cor is the manufacturer here's a link to their site that shows a pic of the hopper. http://pla-cor.com/MAIN/
You also need to buy the roller, you can get replacement rollers to do bullnosed bead as well.

This system is slicker than owlsh!t. All you do is fill the hopper with properly mixed mud, (I recommend using setting type compound, but work fast & clean out the hopper & rollers right away when you're finished with them for the day) Anyway once the hopper filled with mud, you run the bead thru the bottom, the black rubber gaskets you see in the bottom of the hopper will allow the correct amount of mud to go on the bead. Then you place it on the corners, and press it into place, Then grab your roller and embed the bead. Wipe both sides of the corner with a 6" knife & you're done with bead setting & first coat on the corner. If the board has been hung right, you can get by with one more coat and the corner is completely finished!! By hung right I mean the butt end of the board should just flush to the back side of the board on the other wall at the corner

Took me about 30 mins to get used to it and it's a real time saver. We just finished a 3 story custom house, lots of outside corners, all bull nosed, seems like it was close to 700' of bead all told in the place. Helper was sick the day I ran bead and I was still finished setting all bead in the house before 2pm. It would have taken me nearly that long just to cinch the bead using regular metal bead & a cincher tool, then I still would have had to mud it all.

Don't know about current pricing, but when I bought my set-up I got the hopper, outside roller with rollers for 90 degree, splayed, & bullnosed angles & spent around $200 thru Negwer Supply in Columbia, MO.

They also make vinyl bead products as well and they have conversions pieces to go from from bull-nosed to 90 degree angles when you need them. Pretty sure you can order direct from the company from their site as well, but once I saw the system being used on a job I was sold, went right over the the supply house the next day & bought me one.

Holy shiatszu! $200? You probably paid for it and more just in that 3-story!

I gotts get me one o' those! Thanks for the information! :Thumbs:

walldoc said:

Don't know about current pricing, but when I bought my set-up I got the hopper, outside roller with rollers for 90 degree, splayed, & bullnosed angles & spent around $200 thru Negwer Supply in Columbia, MO....Pretty sure you can order direct from the company from their site as well, but once I saw the system being used on a job I was sold, went right over the the supply house the next day & bought me one.

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If your going to be doing consistent repetative drywall work, you need the right tools to make the most of your time. Typically for the must have stuff it's around $6K total and you can vary toys/quality from there.

The crew I use typically tapes/muds 2-3 standard 1200sqft ranch style homes a day with a 3 man crew and then go back the next to spray. But as his names been getting around, he' been getting stuck on some huge projects in our area. Latest is 23,000sqft home with two 4 stall attached garages on both side of main building. Think he was telling me 1200 sheets of 4x12 rock?

I dont do enough to justify specality tools, but if this will be your bread and butter, time is money and if your not jumping on the tools to cut your labor in half, your losing money fast since those tools will easily pay for themselves in the first year and then some once you figure them out.