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I learned that valley method years ago in Dallas, but never knew what it was called. I always liked the little triangles it leaves up the valley. I had an HO ask me if I could put a different color as my 'runner shingle' but I declined. I agree there is much less waste and most importantly, no chance of slicing that bottom layer of shingles by accident.
 

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It sounds like the general thought on those who promote the 'California Valley'
is " If it doesnt leak and you cant see it from the ground and can even save money doing it, then its good to go. If no one knows the difference or asks, then its okay.

Doesnt sound like quality thinking to me, but then again I think I been doing this to long to tell the difference anyway.

Just another example of what was once not accepted is now accepted.
Many examples of this throughout our lives.
 

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It's not about acceptance, it's just opinion and some ego in there. Some refuse to ever change. Some people still shingle using a racking method...........

I wouldn't trust a valley that is weaved at all with a laminate, especially a Timberline. They are not made for that direction of water flow.

Then again, some people haven't been in the business long enough to know, or they don't have repeat customers. How would they know any different if they haven't checked up on any of their past jobs......
 

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I was under the belief that a comparison for the 'california cut' was a 'closed cut' valley, not a weaved valley.
I also was under the belief that changing ones opinion is 'accepting ' what was not before.


Like it has been said here in this topic thread.

We have been doing this for many years now, and everyone was against it at first.
And you can't tell unless you're
on the roof.
And my personal favorite not in this thread
Can't see it from my house
 

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I'm gonna be giving an estimate on a A-frame this afternoon,
I roofed it 'new construction' in 1984 and if I get the job it will be the third home I re-roofed this year that I also roofed originally in 84 - 85.
All three roofs had -0- ice guard, drip edge on eaves but not on rakes, #15 felt, 3- tab shingles and hand nailed, two roofs had box 'turtle' vents and one with ridge vent.
First two had -0- wood damage to overhangs or decks and the #15 felt was still flexible enough to roll/fold up and carry to the dumpster.

I took pride in my work as a crew leader and I do the same being self employed.
We often joke by saying that something looks good from my house thus it's ok, but that's a joke period, just like we also often tell home owners we guarantee our workmanship for 5 years or the first rain.

I didn't change methods because it looks ok from the ground, I changed because it's as reliable, looks good even if your looking at it from the bedroom window of the home, standing on the roof or on the ground.

I did a re-roof for a man who doe's home inspections for realitors/insurance companies and he not only was on the roof several times during the installment but he helped me chalk lines in the valley and watched the process all the way through because he had never seen it done before.
He was happy with it.
 

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I did a re-roof for a man who doe's home inspections for realitors/insurance companies and he not only was on the roof several times during the installment but he helped me chalk lines in the valley and watched the process all the way through because he had never seen it done before.
He was happy with it.
Imagine that..... ;)
A home inspector that hasn't touched a tool in his life probably. :laughing:

I know some of these "professionals". They don't know much outside of the book.
 

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Imagine that..... ;)
A home inspector that hasn't touched a tool in his life probably. :laughing:

I know some of these "professionals". They don't know much outside of the book.
I have known my share of those types as well, had a roof consultant who was hired to over see a government project we did tell me that shingles are not a water tight material unless there is felt paper under them.

This guy actually had roofed before but got most of his experience in building/framing, plus he had a few years working with his uncle in demolition.
 

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I have known my share of those types as well, had a roof consultant who was hired to over see a government project we did tell me that shingles are not a water tight material unless there is felt paper under them.

This guy actually had roofed before but got most of his experience in building/framing, plus he had a few years working with his uncle in demolition.
That's hilarious, do you think he read that in some book, or did he just assume that because people put felt down the shingles must not be waterproof? I can't count the number of re-roofs I've done where there was no felt, felt at eaves alone, tar paper here and there, and in one memorable case, black garbage bags spread flat and used in place of felt!

All these roofs had minimal damage to the sheathing or structure, mostly (as usual) at penetrations.
 

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Again.... no fist fights ok....
but i dont use the tamko valley. It is a short cut...
made avail by tamko to make friends with roofers..
Kidding, dunno what they were thinking...
making life easier for roofers?
Roofer's dont deserve any breaks!!!!! At least i never got one?!!!

Don't use it... i feel the laps and nails in the butted vertical course are too easily fu%$ed up and could leak...
and if you have to use I&W shield, that means your S&%t leaks anyway. Good roofers dont put on roofs that leak. I&W is not a failsafe... stop using it in valleys, just do your vallies right and they wont leak. I dont count on s&*&^^ to keep my roof dry EXCEPT SHINGLES, AND QUALITY INSTALLATION.Hope this helps.

The tamko valley looks great. No doubt is easier than cutting the whole valley. But not faster i wouldn't say. I use california/ western valley (Cut one side) and keep nails, laps and quality behind every nail. 18 years of roofing and only 3 leaks... ever. Use whatever valley you like. I think i have it figured out the way i like it.
Ice and water is code in some places, I put it where it needs to be and I can see that you're from Alabama in the north we have ice problems and if you've ever torn off a frozen roof, the kind where you shovel 2 feet of snow off of before you can even start ripping, or just done a few snow and ice removal calls, you'd know that ice can back up even on steep slopes.

However, I prefer the closed cut valleys to the "tamko" style.
 

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I had an insurance adjuster this week tell me he was a contractor for 25 years and then an adjuster for 20 years. He said a few things that seemed a little strange.

#1. There are no good roofers.
#2. There are no organic shingles there are just asphalt and fiberglass shingles.
#3. Why would you go on a roofing forum on the internet with all that porn?

Should have just pushed him off and put him out of his misery!!!

BTW, yes he denied the roof.
 

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Aoscar, from what I have read, 21gun's reply is pure ignorance and arrogance.

There are very few here who do their own work and can actually claim "quality"........
Hey pal... if i rubbed you the wrong way, my apolog's.... but i certainly have the experience and quality you speak of...and i do all my own work.

I guess you have your opinion too, and youre entitled and all, but the name calling isnt needed.

I feel that tamko vallies are just flat out short cuts... and i think using them makes a fella lazy. But i do think it's a good way to reduce waste, lessen cut thru to bottom layer, and save all that winter cutting...

I dont see how it's any better than a cut valley....except that there's no dog ears to worry about. a PERFECT CUT VALLEY INSTALLED CORRECTLY...can leak if dog ears arent cut....but then... it wouldnt be installed correctly.

The only reason we're talking about this method is it sounds easier and is worth looking to some pros for opinions. I consider my self a pro and you should too, just so ya know... you're in the presence of a great roofer, with a great reputation. I am a shingle roofing pro. Dont ask me about anything on any other type of roof... cause i'll have to lie to ya... just know shingles....

I think a tamko valley is fine if a guy knows where to nail it. It'll proball go 30 years like a closed valley. But i guess i'm just hard headed and think tamko created this method to help roofers out....and to help cover their own butts. I personally wont be using any tamko valleys anytime soon. I like my way.... and i think it's faster... for me. Home House Property Building Architecture


Put an arrogant and ignorant roofer on this 4 layer t/o redeck with 3 curved porches and a half cone hip turret? Nah, dont think so buddy...i got a lil experience with these things...And i give 10 year labor warranty,,, you?
 

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cool, your endorsement means a lot! Is it as efficient as I'm hoping? The article shows to roof cement the soldier course, is that necessary?
U should always cement the cut side of valleys. Tamko valleys leave a hump when the shingles seal, and are not warrantied by GAF/Elk or Certainteed. Cut valley is the way to go. just place some wrappers under the shingles before they seal and cut them at the end of the day.
 

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Here is a pic of the valley on my home. It faces Northwest and fills with plenty of ice and snow. Just got an inch of rain last night (that's why it's wet). Never had a leak with this method.




That's I&W, then 24" W valley...........
 

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.............
I feel that tamko vallies are just flat out short cuts... and i think using them makes a fella lazy. But i do think it's a good way to reduce waste, lessen cut thru to bottom layer, and save all that winter cutting...
I dont see how it's any better than a cut valley....except that there's no dog ears to worry about. a PERFECT CUT VALLEY INSTALLED CORRECTLY...can leak if dog ears arent cut....but then... it wouldnt be installed correctly.
...........
At my age, I'm looking to find
something that works that I can
get subs to do, and do consistently.
I can't tell you how rare it is to
find some one who can do a valley
the way I learned.
I've even tried to teach guys
who seemed to have a spark
of intelligence, but it seems production
takes precedence over proper methods,
and who wants to hear how the
old geezers work anyway. :laughing:
This method works, and I can see
whether it's going on right
before, during, and after. :thumbsup:
 

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Here is a pic of the valley on my home. It faces Northwest and fills with plenty of ice and snow. Just got an inch of rain last night (that's why it's wet). Never had a leak with this method.




That's I&W, then 24" W valley...........
Go up on the roof after your next rain and carefully lift a few of those valley shingles touching the metal and you'll find water under them because there's no water flow channel between the center off the valley and the end of the shingles.
Any thing that holds water 'even in small amounts' will decrease the life span of the shingle and any metal including copper will dry rot if left exposed to setting water.
Even a 1" channel on either side of center is acceptable,1 1/2" at the top and 2" at the bottom is better.

Post a pic of the same area in 5 years and you'll see what I mean.
 
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