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I'm not likely to do many more roofs,
but the reason I like it (so far) is
when I see guys cutting one side
all the way down they aren't able to
dog that top corner.
I'd say more than 75% of all the valley
leaks I've seen are from water catching
on that top point, and traveling back
from whatever the underlayment is.

It's super easy to nip that top corner.....

Snapping a line and getting a strait valley is also very easy. A well trained monkey or a untrained human can cut a strait well placed chalked line down a shingled valley on a warm afternoon.

I put down Ice & Water in every valley regardless as a fail safe, as it's recommended by any manufacture. But I won't cut a corner because it's there.
 

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Curmudgeon
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I know how to cut them
the right way.
What I see being done is
that they run wild all the way up,
then come back and pop a line
and make one long cut.


I'm so anal I dog the tops
all the way up the rake as well.


I've always said, I could
teach a chimp to run step flashing,
but I've still seen it done a hundred
wrong ways.
 

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I like Green things
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23,071 Posts
I know how to cut them
the right way.
What I see being done is
that they run wild all the way up,
then come back and pop a line
and make one long cut.


I'm so anal I dog the tops
all the way up the rake as well.
I never said you didnt know how to cut them.

I actually think it is harder to run them over, chalk it and hook blade it.
You scar up the ones underneath.
 

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Curmudgeon
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I never said you didnt know how to cut them.

I actually think it is harder to run them over, chalk it and hook blade it.
You scar up the ones underneath.
Hard as they are to cut it
amazes me too, but I still
see guys doing it.
I just watched a guy down
the block from my job last week. :rolleyes:
 

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Hard as they are to cut it
amazes me too, but I still
see guys doing it.
I just watched a guy down
the block from my job last week. :rolleyes:
I've used the shear on them in the winters, just cut them all and go at it, that's pretty quick.

But I just run mine like you guys run the tam valley. I just slide them over about 7" run my stagger up the valley and have other guys follow up behind me.

It only waste 7" off each 40" shingle. I snap a line before running them up there. I lace the bottom course, and cut the 2nd one so I can see the line. I cut the top one so I can find my line, snap, and work my way down cutting. I just lift the shingle, nip the top corner to keep the water from following down the course then.

It honestly takes no more than 10 mins, when you get to the top, immediately just snap, and start your way down. Little task like this are annoying, but they go fast if you just get them out of the way asap.
 

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Do the valleys right and you won't have to cut at all. Plus you won't have any chances of leaks. Cut valleys can easily leak, especially on low pitches.

BTW, it's about [email protected] time you guys finally caught on to this. We have been doing this for many years now, and everyone was against it at first.

21gun, you sure are cocky. I used to think it was a trait of roofers, but the out of work carpenters and framers coming on now, sure are full of themselves.
 

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I only do a one cut valley method. I run the second roof off the center of the valley enough to keep a 6 inch minumal lap. On the right side if running right into a vallye will cut my ears back as they are installed. It's tough to lift up a shingle and cut it while cutting the vallye. I run a shingle up the valley though. It's flipped upside down and prevents cutting on the overlapped shingles underneath.

I insist all my installers do the valley detail this way. Never had a call back and have done hundreds of roofs this way.

The shingle up the valley does look like a great way to run a valley and more than likely faster once you get a hang of it but I like the one cut look best right down the center of the valley. With Winterguard, Roofer Sellect weave, and 20in valley flashing it's for water to get in. BTW, I have to use ice and water shield and valley flashing with a closed valley.

I know, real roofers don't use any paper.
 

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The way it's done on the right, is the way we do both sides with a 24" "W" valley underneath. Only thing showing is the colored center of the valley.

If you just put I&W on every penetration like the stormers hack crews do, you won't have any problems. ;)
 

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LOL, good one neo....

Dougger, it's 24" valley.
When I got my roofing license a few years ago the minumal valley width was not 24 inches nor 20 inches. Recall it being more like 16 or 18 inches minumal. Want to say it's 18 inches but not 100% sure.

Seen 24 inch roll valley before but it's more than you need. If using open valley metal I would rather have 24 inch than 18 inch though. The Mexicans at the dump use a lot of wide open valley with three lines running down it. The lines must help direct water that has gotten behind the shingles.
 

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Curmudgeon
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When I got my roofing license a few years ago the minumal valley width was not 24 inches nor 20 inches. Recall it being more like 16 or 18 inches minumal. Want to say it's 18 inches but not 100% sure.

Seen 24 inch roll valley before but it's more than you need. If using open valley metal I would rather have 24 inch than 18 inch though. The Mexicans at the dump use a lot of wide open valley with three lines running down it. The lines must help direct water that has gotten behind the shingles.

It used to be 18", split
and double 36" 90# roll roofing.



Before the copyright police
come for me, this is from Tamko's
application instructions. :thumbsup:
 

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Do the valleys right and you won't have to cut at all. Plus you won't have any chances of leaks. Cut valleys can easily leak, especially on low pitches.

BTW, it's about [email protected] time you guys finally caught on to this. We have been doing this for many years now, and everyone was against it at first.

21gun, you sure are cocky. I used to think it was a trait of roofers, but the out of work carpenters and framers coming on now, sure are full of themselves.

You said it best... cocky. Roofin' for nearly 20 years will do that to a kid.... especially if it has always worked out the way he liked it....99.9% of the time anyhow....

I sounded a bit like a crass beastard in that post... unintentional actually, was trying to keep it short... too short i see. Sorry, buti am still cocky as hell.

Dont believe in the tamko valley, dont like tamko shingles either... too many granules loose in the wrapper, makes the steeper roofs a pain to walk... i do prefer GAF Timberlines... never had the first prob w/ them... sell them exclusively on all my jobs. Cost me more than the shingles i can buy locally, but i just like em that much.
 

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Well, at least it sounds like you do your own work. Can't say that for all the salesmen who call themselves roofers or contractors.
 

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Roofer
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Lol, the poor guy was just asking if the valley would leak or not.

The first valley I ever saw done like this was in 2003, the roof was installed by Valentine Roofing and I was their for a storm damage roof repair.
The roof was 2 years old than and I went through the valleys looking for signs of water getting underneath and found -o- signs of any problems.
I was on the roof again in 06, when the home owner had me add two sky lights, so I went through the valleys again and all still looked good.

It has no ice guard or metal under the shingles, ears "top corners" not cut because the staggering out of the valley eliminates the need for that.
 

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Lol, the poor guy was just asking if the valley would leak or not.

The first valley I ever saw done like this was in 2003, the roof was installed by Valentine Roofing and I was their for a storm damage roof repair.
The roof was 2 years old than and I went through the valleys looking for signs of water getting underneath and found -o- signs of any problems.
I was on the roof again in 06, when the home owner had me add two sky lights, so I went through the valleys again and all still looked good.

It has no ice guard or metal under the shingles, ears "top corners" not cut because the staggering out of the valley eliminates the need for that.
I think the valley would hold up fine, but I see it just as a way to turn a amateur into a roofer by allowing them to cut corners.

You could skip starter strip too probably with out much problem, most 30yr shingles have tar strips on the bottom 2" and if you run Ice & Water, you probably would not need your starter.

But it's skipping a step, and cutting a corner still. 90% of the time, it will probably be fine.
 

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Roofer
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I think the valley would hold up fine, but I see it just as a way to turn a amateur into a roofer by allowing them to cut corners.

You could skip starter strip too probably with out much problem, most 30yr shingles have tar strips on the bottom 2" and if you run Ice & Water, you probably would not need your starter.

But it's skipping a step, and cutting a corner still. 90% of the time, it will probably be fine.
Most roofers in my area had the exact same feelings/thoughts about the closed cut valley when it was first introduced to my area in the late 80's.

The fact ended up being, closed cut valleys hold up just as well as weaved and most "most" home owners and fellow contractors think it looks better.
The above mentioned valley "installed properly" gives you the exact same end result as the traditional closed cut.

Skipping corners doe's not give you the same end result, your example of skipping starters, sure it will not leak into the home "maybe" because it's on the overhang, but when the ice guard begins to give way, which it will being left exposed to the weather, the overhangs will leak.
 

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I don't see a valley procedure as skipping steps, although I get what peffer is saying. I&W shield is a good reference to something that helps amateurs go out and get paid for their work.

Doing a valley that is still proper procedure, and using less time and labor is called efficiency.
 

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Certainteed allows this valley method too. Even if CT recommends it I will still do the one cut down the center method.

I've brought several laborers on roofs done by stomers in the past year or two and none liked the look of the shingle up the valley method. My wife has also seen this valley style and she don't even like it!!! They all agree it would be easier in the Winter but it don't have that crisp look as a single cut valley.

The only roofers I see localy doing the valleys like this are from Mexico.

My Dad has been roofing for about 38 years and he would never do a valley like this on one of my jobs.

Does it work and keep back water? YES. Do I like it? NO.
 
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