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wannabe
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Doing a 55 sq, 4 valley roof, even pitch 4/12 in snow country. I'm planning to do a "california cut". One pitch runs through the valley at least a foot....second pitch is cut at the angle of the valley.

I have used Grace I&W continuous in the valley, then I wove JM granular I&W, and synthetic felt horizontally.

I was reading the July Issue of "the Journal of Light Construction, Reroofing With Asphault Shingles" by Jim Bennet/ Bennet Roofing, Brewster Mass.

Bennet prefers the Tamko Valley....apparently it is illustrated on the packaging and is the Man. suggested install. I had never seen this type of install but I can see the benefits. eg...you run your valley like you would for a "california cut" but instead of cutting you butt shingles end to end vertically up the rake and start the horizontal shingles at the valley square without cutting.

I'm doing this roof for my folks...55 sq. solo! Full tear off etc...(time and money is a concern)

The California cut is considered an industry standard here, and I can't see how the Tamko style is any weaker the the Cal.Cut. The Tamko Valley would save me SO much time with less waste. The auther is in New England which is a pretty harsh climate for roofs (comparable to WNY) so I think I'm going to give it go.

Before I get started shingleing, I just thought I'd see what some of you guys think.
 

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Roofer
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I procrastinated about using that method for a few years after I had seen it done but now it's a regular routine for me and my guys.
The only negative talk I have heard/read about it is a few people referring to it as a lazy way of making a neat valley.
Lazy or not it's just as reliable a method, looks as good and saves a few mins of time.
 

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wannabe
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
We have been doing it for years in the Chicago area, because my guys did read the bundle wrapper.

Ed
cool, your endorsement means a lot! Is it as efficient as I'm hoping? The article shows to roof cement the soldier course, is that necessary?
 

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Not if you are already installing the Ice and Water Shield in the valley.

I wrote a very lengthy post on JLC about the attributes of that valley shingling method, which some members and 2 of their editors had suggested would make a worthwhile article topic, but I felt it was too mundane and already well known. So, I did not feel like submitting it to them.

Now that shows you how much I really know, LOL.

Ed
 

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We always use a Tamko Valley ALWAYS It is also very easy for a guy to master. and it looks very clean from the ground
 

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Curmudgeon
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Mine is 12/12, has "W" metal,
but otherwise it's done that way.
2 winters now, and a couple of
record rains, including Monday's
5" in two hours at 70mph.
 

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wannabe
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
My only concern was the asthetic look...is it obvious that you started with a full, uncut shingle? I'm doing black so it will blend well, but what about other colors?
 

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Curmudgeon
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Mine is the dark green Elk,
And you can't tell unless you're
on the roof. :thumbsup:
 

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I am familar with the valley method that is being mentioned here.

Could one briefly explain the benfits of this kind of valley installation other then less work.

Perhaps I am just set in my ways, but the first time I saw this done, 18 or so yrs ago, given the contractor who was doing the work I thought it was just someone cutting corners on an installtion. Now it seems thats all guys know how to do now and is the norm.

Again I think I have just been installing too long to know the difference to what is better or not better.
 

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With the standard open cut valley, where you place the first side of shingles approximately 2/3rds past the valley and the 2nd side 1/3rd across the valley and then snap a chalk line and cut the top shingles, you use up 1 bundle of shingles for every 11 feet 5 inches, so a 34 foot 3 inch valley is 1 square + about 3 more shingles used.

With the other method mentioned, you only use a little more than 11 shingles placed parallel to the valley and there is no cutting and less potential of a rookie blunder of slicing through the bottom shingles in the valley.

It is a neater method, with less materials used and also less leak potential.

Also, best if you cut dog ears off the top corners on the parallel shingles at the top corner.

Also, best practice for protection is to instal Ice and Water Shield in every valley.

Ed
 

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With the standard open cut valley, where you place the first side of shingles approximately 2/3rds past the valley and the 2nd side 1/3rd across the valley and then snap a chalk line and cut the top shingles, you use up 1 bundle of shingles for every 11 feet 5 inches, so a 34 foot 3 inch valley is 1 square + about 3 more shingles used.

With the other method mentioned, you only use a little more than 11 shingles placed parallel to the valley and there is no cutting and less potential of a rookie blunder of slicing through the bottom shingles in the valley.

It is a neater method, with less materials used and also less leak potential.

Also, best if you cut dog ears off the top corners on the parallel shingles at the top corner.

Also, best practice for protection is to instal Ice and Water Shield in every valley.

Ed

I mostly install CertainTeed landmarks so have always used a cross cut method in valley's.

I don't think the waste is that much, I always start in the valley and I loose 7" off each 40" shingle that I cut. I try to keep the first side that goes down about centered in the valley.

I'm not 100% clear on this method though, I've never installed a Tam shingle. You run your first side normal.....then run a course up the valley vertically? And just but the bottom of your shingles to the vertical course?

If it's what I'm picturing, sounds awfully sloppy looking :eek:
 

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Looks fine from the ground from what I can tell.

But up on the roof, to me anyway, it would look like someone was trying to get away from a chalk line and hook blade IE. Cutting corners.

I'm sure it performs just fine,but just my opinion on the style of valley.
 

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wannabe
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

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wannabe
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well $.02, withought trying the Tamko way...is if you're going to do an open cut the only way to make a clean line is with a shingle shear or to pre-cut. Chalk and hook blade to me is like ripping with a cir.saw instead of a tablesaw (some guys got it, some don't).

One glitch I did catch is the seams in the vertical shingles can't be exposed. However that shouldn't be a hard miss or fix.
 

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Again.... no fist fights ok....
but i dont use the tamko valley. It is a short cut...
made avail by tamko to make friends with roofers..
Kidding, dunno what they were thinking...
making life easier for roofers?
Roofer's dont deserve any breaks!!!!! At least i never got one?!!!

Don't use it... i feel the laps and nails in the butted vertical course are too easily fu%$ed up and could leak...
and if you have to use I&W shield, that means your S&%t leaks anyway. Good roofers dont put on roofs that leak. I&W is not a failsafe... stop using it in valleys, just do your vallies right and they wont leak. I dont count on s&*&^^ to keep my roof dry EXCEPT SHINGLES, AND QUALITY INSTALLATION.Hope this helps.

The tamko valley looks great. No doubt is easier than cutting the whole valley. But not faster i wouldn't say. I use california/ western valley (Cut one side) and keep nails, laps and quality behind every nail. 18 years of roofing and only 3 leaks... ever. Use whatever valley you like. I think i have it figured out the way i like it.
 

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Curmudgeon
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I'm not likely to do many more roofs,
but the reason I like it (so far) is
when I see guys cutting one side
all the way down they aren't able to
dog that top corner.
I'd say more than 75% of all the valley
leaks I've seen are from water catching
on that top point, and traveling back
from whatever the underlayment is.
 
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