Subfloor options for engineered in basement
I'm looking at about 1200 square feet of basement that is currently 12x12 tiles on slab. The tile is very flat but the grout is a horror show.
I typically will lay down a layer foam with the seams taped and then nail down a layer of subfloor but I've never tried to nail through tile. I'm assuming it will shatter so that's a no-go. Thoughts?
My plan on this one is to apply Bostik MVP and then glue down the engineered hardwood. Thoughts?
If anyone can suggest a good way to get a thermal break in there I would be very appreciative as it's an option I like to provide customers.
I typically will lay down a layer foam with the seams taped and then nail down a layer of subfloor but I've never tried to nail through tile. I'm assuming it will shatter so that's a no-go. Thoughts?
My plan on this one is to apply Bostik MVP and then glue down the engineered hardwood. Thoughts?
If anyone can suggest a good way to get a thermal break in there I would be very appreciative as it's an option I like to provide customers.
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Float two layers of 1/2" ran perpendicular to one another, fastening the top panel to the bottom with 7/8" staples. There are also interlocking subfloor panels that are designed to float, with air channel passages on the back side. I can't remember the name of them at the moment but I'm sure someone around here does.
The Drycore units aren't my favorite as you end up with a thin subfloor for about the same price as two layers over poly. The double layer is a good idea. Do you think staple or glue are better for that substrate?
Also, do you think both of my earlier methods suck or were you just presenting options?:whistling
Also, do you think both of my earlier methods suck or were you just presenting options?:whistling
Don't glue over tile.. if you didn't install you don't know how the end result will be.
If you nail the ply down over foam and are afraid of the hilti gun, I'm assuming shattering the tile why not just tapcon it down?
Or install poly, 2x sleepers and fill voids/bays with rigid foam and ply on top.
Or like above was stated build a floating subfloor over your foam with poly, foam and 2 layers of 3/8 ply stapled together.
Dri core is to expensive, only available in 2x2 and time consuming.
Make your own by laying foundation drain tile down and fastening ply over top. Your own self made/cheaper dri core.
I never used foam under any of my subfloors besides the sleeper method. Would the foam get squishy over time ?
If you nail the ply down over foam and are afraid of the hilti gun, I'm assuming shattering the tile why not just tapcon it down?
Or install poly, 2x sleepers and fill voids/bays with rigid foam and ply on top.
Or like above was stated build a floating subfloor over your foam with poly, foam and 2 layers of 3/8 ply stapled together.
Dri core is to expensive, only available in 2x2 and time consuming.
Make your own by laying foundation drain tile down and fastening ply over top. Your own self made/cheaper dri core.
I never used foam under any of my subfloors besides the sleeper method. Would the foam get squishy over time ?
Why are you adding plywood?
http://bostik-us.com/sites/default/files/MVP4.pdf
I have not done this but as discussed in another thread, you can glue right to the tile. It was suggested using slc to smooth the surface.
I have not done this but as discussed in another thread, you can glue right to the tile. It was suggested using slc to smooth the surface.
This is the direction I'm currently leaning. I'd like to offer another option with a thermal break but they originally said that they weren't concerned about the temp of the floor. Now that it's 5 degrees out, I'll see if they still feel that way.
I have tested the tiles and they have very good coverage, which makes the terrible grouting a bit curious. The job looks like the HO had some decent subs in and then tried to do all the trim, grout, etc. himself.
So my takeaway is that my basic option is still Bostik MVP and then gluing the flooring and my better option is foam with two layers of 1/2" floating over it.
Any other opinions? Plywood recommendations?
SLC is not necessary if the floor is already flat. What is the surface like on the existing tile?
talk about reinventing the wheel.
just float the damn floor..theres your thermal break and all other concerns eliminated
just float the damn floor..theres your thermal break and all other concerns eliminated
This is the direction I'm currently leaning. I'd like to offer another option with a thermal break but they originally said that they weren't concerned about the temp of the floor. Now that it's 5 degrees out, I'll see if they still feel that way.
I have tested the tiles and they have very good coverage, which makes the terrible grouting a bit curious. The job looks like the HO had some decent subs in and then tried to do all the trim, grout, etc. himself.
So my takeaway is that my basic option is still Bostik MVP and then gluing the flooring and my better option is foam with two layers of 1/2" floating over it.
Any other opinions? Plywood recommendations?
That would be nice. Do they make underlayments that don't sound cheap now?:whistling It's a million dollar home.
Dri Core
I was going to ask if anyone else finds the sound of a floating floor an issue. It screams "cheap" to me even though many times its not. Ive worked in a few high end homes with floating floors in basement. Never on par with the rest of the home.
I don't know about screams "cheap", more like mutters "tradeoff". The rubber underlayments - probase, e.g. - reduce the clacking/slapping sound.
Yes.... I think it both feels and often sounds like it's a floating floor....
Glue down seems much more solid to me.
and if it's a click lock verse TnG glue... sometimes prone to subsequent squeeking... although talcom powder often cures that.
EDIT: Mutters tradeoff is a very apt description...:thumbsup:
Glue down seems much more solid to me.
and if it's a click lock verse TnG glue... sometimes prone to subsequent squeeking... although talcom powder often cures that.
EDIT: Mutters tradeoff is a very apt description...:thumbsup:
there is nothing cheap about floating a floor..if it screams cheap it because cheap materials are being used..there are 10.00 sf materials to be used for floating.
all the talk of flating a subfloor but then gluing floors is a redundant approach..it is the same thing and utilizes more unnecessary mateirlas and costs.
the subfloor is there waitng tobe covered.
use a quality underlay..Quiet walk is a dream to use.
but you can always go 6 mil vapor barrier..then use 1/4" cork layed out..then install flooring on top. 1/8" corlk for less resiliency..
this is twice-triple the cost of typical foam underlays
Do NOT use snap lock systems. only full glue of T&G..
The advantages are endless.
easy removal..easy repair.
warmer..softer..quieter..
the materials are abundant from handscraped. antiqued to all exotics.
Check out some of the Armstrong walnut hand sculpted, American scraped and century farm lines.
The floating subfloors would be good if you are going to go with a solid material..
but if you are going engineered all the rest is just self aggrandizement and overkill and overall pointless.
float a nice 5" plank down there and watch how it transforms and pleases them.
all the talk of flating a subfloor but then gluing floors is a redundant approach..it is the same thing and utilizes more unnecessary mateirlas and costs.
the subfloor is there waitng tobe covered.
use a quality underlay..Quiet walk is a dream to use.
but you can always go 6 mil vapor barrier..then use 1/4" cork layed out..then install flooring on top. 1/8" corlk for less resiliency..
this is twice-triple the cost of typical foam underlays
Do NOT use snap lock systems. only full glue of T&G..
The advantages are endless.
easy removal..easy repair.
warmer..softer..quieter..
the materials are abundant from handscraped. antiqued to all exotics.
Check out some of the Armstrong walnut hand sculpted, American scraped and century farm lines.
The floating subfloors would be good if you are going to go with a solid material..
but if you are going engineered all the rest is just self aggrandizement and overkill and overall pointless.
float a nice 5" plank down there and watch how it transforms and pleases them.
Probably the quietest floating method is to glue down Floor Muffler, and then go over that.
That said, there is no sound reason to do anything you don't want to do. Glue it to the tile if that floats your boat. If the consumer doesn't want a floating floor, don't argue with them like some *******. Just give them what they say they want.
That said, there is no sound reason to do anything you don't want to do. Glue it to the tile if that floats your boat. If the consumer doesn't want a floating floor, don't argue with them like some *******. Just give them what they say they want.
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