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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm the GC for a customer's home addition/remodel. Their house has a 200 amp service with an exterior cutoff panel adjacent to the meter base. Breaker 1 is 70 amps for exterior AC/Heating circuits. Breaker 2 is 90 amps and controls the interior load center/subpanel.

According to the 2002 NEC load calc, they currently require 80 amps available from the existing 90 being fed to the interior load center.

We pulled the electrical permit (based on 2002 NEC), and am starting to wire an addition which includes master bedroom, bathroom, laundry, kitchen expansion. Can we add a third breaker to the exterior load center and run a new SER, 4 wire cable cable to a new subpanel? The addition needs approx 40 amps. Should we use #4 copper for a 50' run through a crawl space?
 

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Sorry for the confusion - the 70 amp breaker feeds an external cutoff box for the HVAC units.
No offense, but it makes me wonder about your ability to do electrical when you don't even know the correct terminology. Granted, using slang and vernacular terms is one thing, but 'external cut-off box'?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
something tells me you are not a G.C.

If you are a g.c. with 1 post...
No offense, but it makes me wonder about your ability to do electrical when you don't even know the correct terminology. Granted, using slang and vernacular terms is one thing, but 'external cut-off box'?
No offense taken. My dad was an electrician years ago, he always called load centers that are placed next to the meter base "external cutoff panels". As a matter of fact, so does Rex Cauldwell. I'm not an electrician, and don't pretend to be, I'm just trying to make sure my subs are doing the job properly.

I just caught one of them inserting two neutrals under one screw for every breaker, I don't know what you call that, but I know it's wrong! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
you will need to go by the NEC 2008 now.
Not in our jurisdiction, this will be 2002 NEC since the permit was pulled prior to 8/1/09. Any permits after this date will go by the NEC 2008. I got this in writing when pulling the permit.
 

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..........I just caught one of them inserting two neutrals under one screw for every breaker, I don't know what you call that, but I know it's wrong! :)
I'd call it a 110.3(B) violation.
 

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Tech Geek
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I'd call it a 110.3(B) violation.
2002-
(B) Clear Spaces. Working space required by this section
shall not be used for storage. When normally enclosed live
parts are exposed for inspection or servicing, the working
space, if in a passageway or general open space, shall be
suitably guarded.
2005/2008-
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.
:whistling
 

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2002-

(B) Clear Spaces. Working space required by this section
shall not be used for storage. When normally enclosed live
parts are exposed for inspection or servicing, the working
space, if in a passageway or general open space, shall be
suitably guarded.

:whistling
You might try 110.3(B), not 110.26(B).:thumbsup:

(Page 40, middle of right side)
 

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:blink:
Isn't that the inspectors job?
It can be, but only for Code compliance. Suppose there's something that the owner wants that's above and beyond NEC minimum?

I've worked for many builders and GCs over the years, and the ones I like to work with are the ones who know more than just how to operate their cell phones. Ones who show up at the job site, take a good, hard look at what's been done, and have a working relationship with the subs are, IMPO, much better than the ones who would rather 'supervise' the job with a cell phone while they're out fishing or snowmobiling in another state.
 

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Fentoozler
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It can be, but only for Code compliance. Suppose there's something that the owner wants that's above and beyond NEC minimum?

I've worked for many builders and GCs over the years, and the ones I like to work with are the ones who know more than just how to operate their cell phones. Ones who show up at the job site, take a good, hard look at what's been done, and have a working relationship with the subs are, IMPO, much better than the ones who would rather 'supervise' the job with a cell phone while they're out fishing or snowmobiling in another state.

While I agree...there is also the 3rd type....the one who is overbearing and is more of a nuisance than anything.....kind of like Harry Homeowner watching your every move.
 

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While I agree...there is also the 3rd type....the one who is overbearing and is more of a nuisance than anything.....kind of like Harry Homeowner watching your every move.
I rarely get the chance to work with those types. I end up charging so much for labor because they slow me down way too much.
 

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Head Grunt
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For that size addition i would go with a 100amp sub-panel. The kitchen and laundry room themselves will will exceed 40 amps of usage. If there is an electric oven that alone will take 40amps.
 

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For that size addition i would go with a 100amp sub-panel. The kitchen and laundry room themselves will will exceed 40 amps of usage. If there is an electric oven that alone will take 40amps.

I agree with him. I would run 2/2/2/4 Alum. SER. Copper would be extremely heavy and expensive.
 

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Service & Repairs
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The doubled up termination of the neutral conductor inside a panel could be a violation of 110.3(B) but 408.41 is most likely to be cited.

408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations. Each grounded
conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an indi-
vidual terminal that is not also used for another conductor.
Exception: Grounded conductors of circuits with parallel
conductors shall be permitted to terminate in a single ter-
minal if the terminal is identified for connection of more
than one conductor.
 
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