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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi folks, I usually just stick to interior renovations without involving strutural supporting walls

but i have taken on a job at my brothers house for him

the roof is stick framed
12 foot span from outside wall to load bearing wall in center of house for total of 24 foot span outside wall to outside wall
the problem is his interior ceiling has dropped in places over 2 inches, I would like to strengthen his stick roof not level it and hang a new ceiling underneath it
the stick roof has 2x4 ceiling joists with 2- 2 x 10 plates spaced 4' from each outside wall running across them with a 4x4 vertically supporting rafters every 4', the 4x4s are simlply notched into the rafter, the rafters are 2' apart
 

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Design Build
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hi folks, I usually just stick to interior renovations without involving strutural supporting walls

but i have taken on a job at my brothers house for him

the roof is stick framed
12 foot span from outside wall to load bearing wall in center of house for total of 24 foot span outside wall to outside wall
the problem is his interior ceiling has dropped in places over 2 inches, I would like to strengthen his stick roof not level it and hang a new ceiling underneath it
the stick roof has 2x4 ceiling joists with 2- 2 x 10 plates spaced 4' from each outside wall running across them with a 4x4 vertically supporting rafters every 4', the 4x4s are simlply notched into the rafter, the rafters are 2' apart
- Pictures?

- 24' span (12' run) What pitch?

- Rafters are what? 2x4 ceiling joists are under-spanned. If you have a load bearing wall at 12'...then it should be directly under the ridge.

Since you are planning on rehanging sheetrock then you need to replace the ceiling joists. Either sister in or replace the 2x4s with 2x8s (or whatever equates to the future load that will be in the space) This can be determined from an IBC/IRC code book that is current for your county/city code enforcement jurisdiction.

I suspect that the rafters are under spanned as well. For this you can either sister next to them or you can install a purlin using structural beams that can be supported by legs that have a positive/engineered load path to the earth.

If you know a good framing carpenter, hire him to take care of this for you, or at least share his experience with you. You never want to shift loads to places where no plan was intended.

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
more info

sorry 5 12 pitch, rafters are 2x4s 24inch center, ceiling joists are 2x4s 24inch center
my new sheetrock is going to be metal framed and leveled from lowest point on ceiling I just want to ensure the structural integrity of the ceiling joists so they dont push down anymore, i believe they are pushed down because of the make shift knee wall made out of 4x4s pushing down on a 2x10 in turn pushing down on ceiling joists, i plan to reinforce the rafters to carry load to center load bearing wall and possibly take out the 4x4s that are pushing down on the 2x4 ceiling joist that has no structural support under that area
 

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Please complete your profile, and continue to the intro page and tell us a little about yourself and your professional experience, thankyou and welcome to ct"

gmod
 

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rafters are 2x4s 24inch center, ceiling joists are 2x4s 24inch center
my new sheetrock is going to be metal framed and leveled from lowest point on ceiling I just want to ensure the structural integrity of the ceiling joists so they dont push down anymore, i believe they are pushed down because of the make shift knee wall made out of 4x4s pushing down on a 2x10 in turn pushing down on ceiling joists, i plan to reinforce the rafters to carry load to center load bearing wall and possibly take out the 4x4s that are pushing down on the 2x4 ceiling joist that has no structural support under that area
ummm, uhhh, hmmmmm.....think i'll go back to bed, i'm seeing things.:eek:
 

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The Duke
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You have one effed up roof and ceiling there. Someone who should not ever try framing....tried it.....and failed.

I would suggest having an engineer or at least a knowledgeable framer or builder come look at it. I will repeat the important word....knowledgeable.
 

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Concrete Mike
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hi folks, I usually just stick to interior renovations without involving strutural supporting walls

but i have taken on a job at my brothers house for him

the roof is stick framed
12 foot span from outside wall to load bearing wall in center of house for total of 24 foot span outside wall to outside wall
the problem is his interior ceiling has dropped in places over 2 inches, I would like to strengthen his stick roof not level it and hang a new ceiling underneath it
the stick roof has 2x4 ceiling joists with 2- 2 x 10 plates spaced 4' from each outside wall running across them with a 4x4 vertically supporting rafters every 4', the 4x4s are simlply notched into the rafter, the rafters are 2' apart
I would run a rafter tie every 48" to help suport it, and or mabee sister 2x6 or 2x8 next to the 2x4 cei;ing joist to prevent roof sagging.
 

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I hate to differ and I am certainly no engineer but..
I would assert that in all the universe, given the configurations described in the op's posts, upon any planet with gravitational forces similar to or greater than that upon the earth on which the aformentioned structure exists that there are zero structures constructed of 2x4s in the manner described that are "doing ok" unless..."doing ok" means sagging like a beeyotch.
 

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Eater of sins.
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I would assert that in all the universe, given the configurations described in the op's posts, upon any planet with gravitational forces similar to or greater than that upon the earth on which the aformentioned structure exists that there are zero structures constructed of 2x4s in the manner described that are "doing ok" unless..."doing ok" means sagging like a beeyotch.
:laughing:

"Ha ha, I don't care who you are, that's funny right there." 'Mater from cars.

Andy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
tks for the responses guys,
trust me the roof is ****** up
i just found out that the center joint on the ceiling joists isn't constant, they are butted up and vary in length, thus the load bearing wall underneath is not supporting all the joints
it looks as though i am looking at sisstering in 2x6's, the problem is the previous framer if you want to call him that notched a **** load out of both the rafter and the ceiling joist sitting on the outside walls so there is only room for about 3" tapering down to 2" of meat to slide in between the outside wall and the roof sheathing
 

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KemoSabe
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This house was built in 1923, with 2x4 CJs and rafters. It originally had cement tiles on the roof. They were removed and asphalt shingles applied. The rafters had about 2-3 inches of sag. So......only one thing to do.
 

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Maker of fine kindling
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tks for the responses guys,
trust me the roof is ****** up
i just found out that the center joint on the ceiling joists isn't constant, they are butted up and vary in length, thus the load bearing wall underneath is not supporting all the joints
it looks as though i am looking at sisstering in 2x6's, the problem is the previous framer if you want to call him that notched a **** load out of both the rafter and the ceiling joist sitting on the outside walls so there is only room for about 3" tapering down to 2" of meat to slide in between the outside wall and the roof sheathing
I don't think there is much of a problem cutting the CJ to fit in that space.

The rafters will need a plywood gusset glued and screwed at the end to prevent them from splitting. Nail the bejesus that to the CJ and you have a better set up than was there.

When i did my own house I wrapped the rafter with a Simpson strap as well just beyond the gusset. Just because I felt better about it. Been years and no drywall cracks.
 

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Got any other photos Kimosabe? That looks like an interesting project.
Steve

This house was built in 1923, with 2x4 CJs and rafters. It originally had cement tiles on the roof. They were removed and asphalt shingles applied. The rafters had about 2-3 inches of sag. So......only one thing to do.
 
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