[R.J.]

It's a two story building constructed around 1930 or so. The foundation is rubble/ stone and brick which was covered in stucco numerous times over the years. Most of the stucco was cracked and was easily removed with a prybar. It also appears that some type of blue waterproof coating was used to waterproof it underneath.

The stone foundation is six feet below grade and protrudes three feet above transitioning into brick. The mortar (appears to be lime) used on the stone is virtually dust and was easily removed with a chisel and the rest with a pressure washer. The brick is spalled in many areas and some will need to be changed.

I wanted to try and repoint everything and possibly just Thoroseal instead of stuccoing. The main issue are the stones in the foundation. There a huge voids between them and alot of the stones themselves are soft and easily turn into a metallic dust if you rub them hard enough. I assume the stones inside are in better condition, haha. I was planning on using Type N to fill the voids, repoint and reface the stones, and repoint the brick.

It's too dark now to take good photos, but will get some up tomorrow.

 

[fjn]

It's too dark now to take good photos, but will get some up tomorrow.

Good idea ! you know that a picture etc.etc. Look forward to seeing them.

 

[R.J.]

This is the front of the building. Note the gapping holes and voids.

This is about midpoint and to the left used to be a window which was blocked up two years ago.

The grey stuff on the left is actually some kind of goopy waterproofing. To the right, I washed the brick with a heated pressure washer. Above is the old stucco yet to be removed.

Here's a closeup of the stones. I only removed about 1/2 inch of the mortar. Most of it crumbled out easy.

This is the chimney which was pretty damaged after the stucco was removed by hand.

Here's the base of the chimney. I cut away a section of the concrete to expose the top of the foundation and brick.

Here is the rear of the building and to the right is the chimney riser.

 

[JBM]

It should be filled and repointed with a lime mortar. Where is your location.

 

[R.J.]

NY. I found a supplyhouse that carries Virginia Limestone mortar, but it's almost $40 a bag. Would Type N on the brickjoints be fine?

 

[MAULEMALL]

A little info..

http://www.virginialimeworks.com/hydraulic-lime.html



below is a bunch of videos


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyplL8eR4Y4&feature=c4-overview&list=UUtWuIvsfPydARxk-tm_xBZQ


scroll down to Part 1: An Introduction to Traditional Masonry Part

and work your way through to 10

 

[JBM]

Ive had several lime projects this year and have been using the 150 building lime. The stuff is fantastic. I love it. Matches the lime stuff around here perfectly.

 

[JBM]

NY. I found a supplyhouse that carries Virginia Limestone mortar, but it's almost $40 a bag. Would Type N on the brickjoints be fine?

No.

Its well worth the $40. Your only looking at maybe under 10 bags I would guess. Small money and not where you should look for savings.

 

[R.J.]

No.

Its well worth the $40. Your only looking at maybe under 10 bags I would guess. Small money and not where you should look for savings.

I bought 14 bags of Building 200 and sand. Having never used this before, the bags were pretty easy to carry. The Anti-hernia mortar, haha.

I did have a few questions though. After repointing with this stuff, can I go back and scratch coat the stones without worrying about cold joint issues? My goal is to cover the the entire base of stones for protection with a stucco rendering. Also, I'm going to replace the concrete driveway where the concrete will butt up against the newly stuccoed stones. How well does portland cement based product mate with lime based? Flashing, covering the coves with a line of Portland, or just a simple bead of good ole' NP1?

 

[R.J.]

A little info..

http://www.virginialimeworks.com/hydraulic-lime.html



below is a bunch of videos


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyplL8eR4Y4&feature=c4-overview&list=UUtWuIvsfPydARxk-tm_xBZQ


scroll down to Part 1: An Introduction to Traditional Masonry Part

and work your way through to 10

Hey thanks. I watched all of them and got quite the history lesson. Considering I knew absolutely nothing about older mortars, it was a good first step.

I talked to a couple of GCs I do work for on other jobs, and all of them looked at me like I had three heads when I brough up lime mortar. Their solution was pack the hell out of the joints with Portland with a bonding admix and call it a day.

 

[fjn]

Just to stir the pot. I believe Va.Lime Works makes a good product. Is it really and truly that much better and really needed at $40 a bag ?



Here is another "expert" opinion.


http://muralsplus.com/forum/default.php?topic=59150.10;wap2

 

[fjn]

Another in support of ordinary type S hydrated lime.


http://www.buildinglime.org/Thomson_TypeS.pdf

 

[fjn]

Another "expert " opinion.



http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/w...&T=text/html; charset=us-ascii&XSS=3&header=1

 

[R.J.]

From one of your links:

. "Hydraulic lime" and "traditional" is a bait-and-switch. On the one hand, the historically accurate material - ordinary, non-hydraulic lime - is embraced. Then the purveyors of hydraulic lime monger a little fear and switch you to this hydrated hydraulic lime substitute. Yes hydraulic lime was traditional in the 19th century - in EUROPE! IT IS SOMEBODY ELSE'S TRADITION - NOT OURS! While some hydraulic lime was imported to the US, it was never intentionally produced here and finding it in forensic analyses occasionally, but rarely, happens. If people are so worried that just plain lime won't kick fast enough, there is a traditional 19th century solution to this problem - they added a little natural cement to the mix.

I have almost the entire stone rendering rough pointed in Hydraulic Lime (1:2) Lime to sand ratio. After almost 5 days, it's hardened, but there is just something loopy or off about it. If you tap it lightly with a chisel, it's still "soft" unlike Portland where you get nice solid feedback. Perhaps it just needs more time to cure, IDK.

I'm getting ready to start pointing the brick next week, and am somewhat uncomfortable using this stuff. I found it funny in that quoted excerpt about adding cement. Everytime I'm mixing this stuff, I wanna add Portland to it!

Another weird property (if you wish to call it) of the H-Lime is that it appears to be leeching color or something from the stones. Many areas turned from a bright white into a darkish blue.

I'll get some pictures up tomorrow.

 

[JBM]

For the most part I stay out of all the lime discussions. If something needs to be touched up with lime ill just get the one from Virginal lime or there is another one ive come across. The lime mortar does stay soft for a few days. It will harden eventually. If possible I mist it and I do keep it out of blaring sun the best I can.

A quote from Virginia Lime

Utilizing technology that dates back to the Roman Empire, Virginia Lime Works Building Lime is a hydraulic lime in which we take the finest quality double slaked low temperature fired hydrated lime and blend it with our special pozzolan (similar to volcanic ash) to yield a consistent and long lasting material that conforms to ASTM C1707. Contrary to what others might say, our pozzolan is most certainly not Portland Cement or Pulverized Fly Ash. It's actually a blend of materials that have been around forever, and have an established track record in building construction.

when using a Hydrated lime does it have this pozzolan in it like described? Im thinking if it doesnt then it wont harden correctly.

Like I said I know there has been many lime threads here but Ive not really read any of them.

Here is a pic of something I was touching up. It is hard as I would expect.

 

[JBM]

Just to stir the pot. I believe Va.Lime Works makes a good product. Is it really and truly that much better and really needed at $40 a bag ?



Here is another "expert" opinion.


http://muralsplus.com/forum/default.php?topic=59150.10;wap2

I havnt used any other lime but Virginias and another company which is also a restoration lime. The fist time I used it I was blown away at the workability, the texture, the body , everything. Its my perfect mortar actually. Has amazing pan life, I could go on and on.

 

[JBM]

I bought 14 bags of Building 200 and sand. Having never used this before, the bags were pretty easy to carry. The Anti-hernia mortar, haha.

I did have a few questions though. After repointing with this stuff, can I go back and scratch coat the stones without worrying about cold joint issues? My goal is to cover the the entire base of stones for protection with a stucco rendering. Also, I'm going to replace the concrete driveway where the concrete will butt up against the newly stuccoed stones. How well does portland cement based product mate with lime based? Flashing, covering the coves with a line of Portland, or just a simple bead of good ole' NP1?

I am a silpro and or umaco stucco freak myself, so I know what your thinking,. That you can stucco this with this stuff and finish it off and it will look like the cats ass. Well .I would not. The stucco is waterproof as well as "breathable" but there is breathable in a portland cementious world and there is breathable in a lime mortar world. The two dont mix. If you sit back and look around you will see lime mortar buildings a hundred years old that have yet to be repointed. Let the mortar work as it was designed to. You also need to take into consideration proper water management.

As far as butting concrete against it, do what you would normally do if it butted against a chimney or blockwork or whatever. I would allow for some movement at minimum.

In summary I would look at Superseals posts on ribbon pointing :laughing:

 

[stonecutter]

What is your lime mix, Jeff?

 

[JBM]

What is your lime mix, Jeff?

The Virginia Building lime 150 2.5:1

 

[stonecutter]

The Virginia Building lime 150 2.5:1

2 lime, 5 sand, 1?